tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post5064895776913182091..comments2024-01-25T13:46:11.967-06:00Comments on The Bronze Blog: Gaming Thread: MetroidvaniasRyan Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14750814560493466382noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-50939312501591944062009-02-13T23:41:00.000-06:002009-02-13T23:41:00.000-06:00In UP, Fire-type weapon attachments will be availa...In UP, Fire-type weapon attachments will be available very early on, so that'll be one bit of metagaming somewhat skipped. Also, I think I might make melting ice to be a bad thing most of the time. Don't want to end up falling into a frozen lake and taking Ice damage as a result.Bronze Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938257296504189967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-3519278704963213482009-02-13T23:21:00.000-06:002009-02-13T23:21:00.000-06:00I think one possibility for a "drill" weapon to go...I think one possibility for a "drill" weapon to go through terrain could be a flamethrower/heat ray/whatever in an area that has seams of ice running through it. You just have to be careful and avoid giving away, like Metroid Prime did, that you can eventually melt that ice so you aren't feeding the metagame.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, that's probably a trope anyway (I can't go look, I have to go to bed soon and I have the same problem with TV Tropes that I have <A HREF="http://xkcd.com/214/" REL="nofollow">with Wikipedia</A>), so anyone seeing ice is going to wonder, "Where's the fire weapon?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-86267050941863331212009-02-13T22:53:00.000-06:002009-02-13T22:53:00.000-06:00I read GDL. Infrequently, I admit, but I read it. ...I read GDL. Infrequently, I admit, but I read it. I just rarely feel like I have anything worthwhile to contribute.Tom Fosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796424725228769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-79258399735897340952009-02-13T21:59:00.000-06:002009-02-13T21:59:00.000-06:00So why aren't you on GDL exactly Tom? XDSo why aren't you on GDL exactly Tom? XDKing of Ferretshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893294460892136598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-9454035850515115922009-02-13T21:18:00.000-06:002009-02-13T21:18:00.000-06:00One thing that would be nice to see is the allowan...One thing that would be nice to see is the allowance for clever or unorthodox uses of your various weapons. The drill should be usable as an effective, if crude, melee weapon. Shooting your main gun--particularly if it's some kind of infinite-ammo energy weapon--at the rock ought to accomplish much of the same effect as the drill if you do it long enough (i.e., the tedious brute force method). I think one of the biggest mistakes of this sort of game is to lay down the railroad track by making only one path accessible with a given set of weapons. If I'm clever enough to figure out how to cross the chasm without the jump-boots, it shouldn't break the game. Now, it's entirely fair that I could be screwed by enemies that take a lot more shooting to kill, or that I can't get <I>back</I> across the chasm the way I came, but I shouldn't be punished for being creative, and I shouldn't be forced to stick to the rails. <BR/><BR/>Something that might solve a lot of the problems would be to play with the setting. Lush alien jungles are great, but bizarre <A HREF="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlienGeometries" REL="nofollow">alien geometries</A> might provide both a justification for some of the traps and obstacles, and a justification for previously-drilled segments coming back and so forth. In fact, it'd be a good source for the weapons upgrades and such, too--you gather progressively more bizarre, specialized, and <A HREF="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BodyHorror" REL="nofollow">body horror</A>-inducing upgrades as you go through the game. <BR/><BR/>Pardon me for a moment, I'm going off on a plot: I'm envisioning a Samus-style armored character crashing or otherwise ending up in some bizarre Lovecraftian dimension, scattering his/her equipment over a fairly wide area. In this scenario, I would imagine that the more conventional and mechanical weapons (flamethrower, drill) would be the ones you start with and gather early on, while as you go on, you find upgrades that alter your armor (and then, your body, senses, and mind) to make you more effective in the bizarre environment. By the end, it might be questionable whether or not you'll even be able to return home.<BR/><BR/>The fun mind-screw story would be if you dispatched some hideous boss-monster when you first arrived, then work your way through the world and back to your ship, where you fight your just-crashed, unaltered self in a mirror of the opening battle. And then, <I>you kill him</I>. And then the fun starts.Tom Fosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796424725228769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-32440322869490307482009-02-13T17:43:00.000-06:002009-02-13T17:43:00.000-06:00Yeah, I'm in agreement, and it's extra lazy when t...Yeah, I'm in agreement, and it's extra lazy when those involve palette swapping the rocks you're drilling through.Bronze Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938257296504189967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-79837916724897296672009-02-13T15:49:00.000-06:002009-02-13T15:49:00.000-06:00Another thought: it's probably best to avoid new a...Another thought: it's probably best to avoid new abilities that are just "upgrades." That always feels cheap. To use the drill example, it's probably a bad idea to have 3 types of rock and each needs a more powerful drill to get through. It might be okay from time to time, but as a general rule, that's kind of lazy design.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06661441668625677468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-72434735825968033242009-02-13T14:07:00.000-06:002009-02-13T14:07:00.000-06:00Just make some undrillable bedrock, and have it fo...Just make some undrillable bedrock, and have it fold up sometimes. That's probably the easiest way to make undrillable rocks.<BR/><BR/>One thing you might try doing is make it so that people can't just keep on drilling, or tunnels collapse.King of Ferretshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893294460892136598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-31438921687915011812009-02-12T23:35:00.000-06:002009-02-12T23:35:00.000-06:00Oh, good idea for the expansion of the drill to ge...Oh, good idea for the expansion of the drill to general materials. Making your way by tunneling adds a lot for one of my clumsier characters to do. I feel stupid for not coming up with it myself.<BR/><BR/>Though there's a danger of sequence breaking if I'm not careful. Have to keep things reasonable without making it feel like I'm throwing in undrillable rocks just to be contrary.Bronze Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938257296504189967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-6265367933380396092009-02-12T23:28:00.000-06:002009-02-12T23:28:00.000-06:00I'd say that naturalistic obstacles and solutions ...I'd say that naturalistic obstacles and solutions are definitely the best. Arbitrary roadblocks are always bad, be they completely nonsensical block puzzles or magic doors that can only be opened with the right color of phlebotinum, so I'm with you there.<BR/><BR/>I'm thinking things like high walls and jump boots or climbing gear to get over them, long crevasses and some sort of jetpack or grappling hook or something. Even cracked walls and drills, like you said, get old, plus they feed the metagame unnecessarily: "Ooh, that wall is cracked. I bet I get some item to break through it later on!"<BR/><BR/>I think, though, that connecting some further exploration to at least a few weapons might be a good idea, provided you could do it cleverly. It would then feel more rewarding to get the new weapon, and not just "My power number went up. Yay." Things I can think of offhand are like a machete that cuts through thick foliage and enemy heads, a flamethrower that burns through, I dunno, trash heaps or something (and enemies), a goo gun that creates sticky patches on walls and ceilings in addition to sticking up enemies, stuff like that.<BR/><BR/>I think that drilling in the ground/walls might even be totally awesome so long as the ability wasn't restricted to just cracked walls; say you could drill through any or all of a particular substance. Maybe entire locations are made of that substance, so you could dig all through them looking for stuff. Maybe in some places, it could act as a bottleneck to the next location.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you'd have to allow for the dirt or rock or whatever to come back after you left an area so the whole place wasn't totally messed up, but still...Could be cool.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, Metroidvanias are one of my favorite genres of game.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06661441668625677468noreply@blogger.com