tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post7562056108324982519..comments2024-01-25T13:46:11.967-06:00Comments on The Bronze Blog: The Psychology of Conspiracy TheoristsRyan Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14750814560493466382noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-44736885371546085892009-11-01T21:36:52.706-06:002009-11-01T21:36:52.706-06:00On YT-
Bill Weiss 23 minutes in hell
See on Enti...On YT-<br /><br />Bill Weiss 23 minutes in hell<br /><br />See on Entimes777 channeldebrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-32254615507195449402009-07-27T11:29:39.758-05:002009-07-27T11:29:39.758-05:00Man, my girlfriend is a conspiracy theorist. She b...Man, my girlfriend is a conspiracy theorist. She believes in all this stuff and I just don't get it. She spent so much energy memorizing all these facts and stuff trying to prove that the Government is evil and trying to kill us all and I just asked, <br /><br />"What are you going to do about it? What are all these facts going to do about the problem?"<br /><br />I don't know how to convince her it's a worthless thing to invest effort into. And it scares me because I don't know if she's insane or she is just buying into some jerk's theory that "sounds" like it makes sense.Ned Wikihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06022395891247043227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-37117710365406218182009-04-19T13:17:00.000-05:002009-04-19T13:17:00.000-05:00Debra:
You were afraid that what you wrote might ...Debra:<br /><br />You were afraid that what you wrote might make you sound like a complete nutter. It did.<br /><br />So you very bravely deleted it all. <br /><br />I can't help but think that if someone really, truly believed what they had written, and really truly wanted to help others understand they would have left their words there regardless of how others had reacted to them. Regardless of how mean we might have been, if you believed your words were true they should still stand. They should have still meant something.<br /><br />But you deleted them.<br /><br />Which leaves you with some interesting unanswered questions, doesn't it Debra?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-30148306731756725622009-04-18T22:42:00.000-05:002009-04-18T22:42:00.000-05:00I'm sorry Tom. I shouldn't have said that.I'm sorry Tom. I shouldn't have said that.debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-80105149486032249832009-04-18T20:26:00.000-05:002009-04-18T20:26:00.000-05:00"Frustrated" would probably be a better word..."Frustrated" would probably be a better word...MWchasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195851187187771113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-53252414192419694212009-04-18T20:07:00.000-05:002009-04-18T20:07:00.000-05:00Actually, Tom isn't, in my experience, very bitter...Actually, Tom isn't, in my experience, very bitter at all. You're just completely unable to understand what's really going on around you because you insist on filtering everything through your preconceptions.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06661441668625677468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-48453942718509390722009-04-18T19:17:00.000-05:002009-04-18T19:17:00.000-05:00It would be a very, very good idea to consider why...It would be a very, very good idea to consider why he is "bitter", debra. You're a tough woman to debate, no flattery intended.MWchasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195851187187771113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-34757909638831719452009-04-18T19:13:00.000-05:002009-04-18T19:13:00.000-05:00Tom Foss, you are a bitter man.Tom Foss, you are a bitter man.debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-80366324000060358832009-04-18T13:51:00.000-05:002009-04-18T13:51:00.000-05:00Yes, we're the mean bunch, Debra. I mean, you accu...Yes, we're the mean bunch, Debra. I mean, you accused us all of being "sheeple" who work for the Devil, and all we do is "tear down," while you're bravely fighting the conspiracy (which, as atheists and bloggers in the alternative media, includes us) by stockpiling food and ammo for the coming non-zombie apocalypse and jumping at shadows in comic shops. <br /><br />We've been so mean, trying to show you that you're being played for a fool by survivalists and nutters, who are perfectly happy lying to you if it means you'll buy more jerky. We've been so mean, worrying about how your paranoid apocalyptic delusions are having adverse effects on your life and the life of your family. We've been so mean, asking that you actually pay attention to the things we're saying and fact-check your beliefs with something other than YouTube videos and conspiracy websites. We've been so mean, getting frustrated when you refuse to follow simple links or even consider the possibility that you're wrong, that a system of unsupported beliefs which have already suckered you into accepting myths (the Priory of Sion) and hoaxes (the Onion video) as evidence might have fooled you into believing <I>other</I> untrue things as well. <br /><br />Yes, Debra, I'm sure we'll all go back and reread what we've written. And I, for one, won't feel ashamed about any of it. Throughout this conversation, I think I've been charitable to a fault and more than patient, even as you've clearly refused to engage in even the smallest bit of critical thinking. Even after it was obvious that you're convinced of your own infallibility in detecting the machinations of the One World Shadow Governmentinati, I continued to try to address your claims in civil terms, in the vain hope that you'd actually listen and stop ruining your life preparing for and worrying about an Armageddon that will never happen. <br /><br />Debra, once again, I suggest you follow your own advice: reread what you wrote (well, what's left, anyway) and see how <I>insane</I> it sounds. Your conspiracy story is self-contradictory and falls apart under even the most basic scrutiny. Try to shut down your emotional attachment to the conspiracy claims for a moment and examine them in an objective, critical light, and see how well they actually stack together. Or ask your psychiatrist to do so. <br /><br />On the other hand, you could just continue blissfully on in your delusion, which comforts you by assuring you that you have special knowledge and understand the truth of how the world works. That's certainly much better than accepting reality on its terms. Truth <I>hurts</I>; truth is hard to accept, reality is painful. No, much better to believe the comforting lie.Tom Fosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796424725228769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-4524028772477965702009-04-18T13:31:00.000-05:002009-04-18T13:31:00.000-05:00I never knew what i was getting involved with. Bro...I never knew what i was getting involved with. Bronze Dog knew when he gave me his blog address what all of you would say to me. I reread the entire blog that is why I deleted my portion. Reread it, hear yourselves.<br />Whether ya'll admit to it or not, you are a mean bunch. How you can spend that much energy on being hateful, I don't know.<br />I address Bronze Dog now..debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-13132573008031807982009-04-12T11:48:00.000-05:002009-04-12T11:48:00.000-05:00...Wow. Didn't know she did that, since I don't ge......Wow. Didn't know she did that, since I don't get notifications for deletions. Didn't think she was the type to volunteer for the memory hole.<BR/><BR/>Oh, well. We've got some decent chunks of her quoted in our responses.Bronze Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938257296504189967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-35660644610573908322009-04-12T11:39:00.000-05:002009-04-12T11:39:00.000-05:00Hey Debra, what's with deleting all your posts? Th...Hey Debra, what's with deleting all your posts? That's no fun. And not even an explanation why.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, here's some news about the Amero you were so worried about:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/ameronote.asp" REL="nofollow">Amero</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-19010747668248327942009-04-03T13:48:00.000-05:002009-04-03T13:48:00.000-05:00I'm not familiar with YouTube maintenance policy, ...I'm not familiar with YouTube maintenance policy, but said problems probably are the reason why they took it down for maintenance.King of Ferretshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893294460892136598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-7581615093164736262009-04-02T23:36:00.000-05:002009-04-02T23:36:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-26990948759075633632009-04-02T19:34:00.000-05:002009-04-02T19:34:00.000-05:00Wait, was that during the maintenance, or before i...Wait, was that during the maintenance, or before it? And that sounds like a different problem, like YouTube was having trouble. The skeptical channels have trouble with YouTube's setup, in and of itself. (possibly, some of the problems you saw were from votebot attacks, or something like that. There are jerks out on the web.)<BR/><BR/>As to the story... Now, understand that I sometimes have difficulty appreciating things... But what were you trying to say? That you felt calmer then than you have before, or something like that?MWchasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195851187187771113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-88619449875513779312009-04-02T19:14:00.000-05:002009-04-02T19:14:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-41776158692107869122009-04-01T19:58:00.000-05:002009-04-01T19:58:00.000-05:00I was getting at this in another thread, but takin...I was getting at this in another thread, but taking it to the next level would be psychoanalysis, and therefore best suited to here.<BR/><BR/>Debra... there are some things that I think I grasp now... You're putting yourself into a role normally occupied by characters in stories. There are certain patterns... you don't let anybody else let you feel safe, I think, not unless they tell you what you want to hear. When you heard about YouTube accounts being targeted, you acted idealistically, and took the 'underdog' role, even though, in that instance, you were either neutral or somewhat affiliated with the aggressors. As unromantic as insisting on shades of gray sounds, there is a lesson to be learned... in essence, as I see it, you've seen so much black-and-white that you can't understand what gray looks like. You have to see past this fantasy of immutable moral standing.<BR/><BR/>Good people, under the right conditions, can be made to commit atrocities. It's not even for reasons of greed, it's just that people will abdicate responsibility for their actions, even if they seem to be threatening someone else's life. (The experiments that established this are controversial for reasons of testing ethics, but the results are sound.)<BR/><BR/>But I really do think you're fitting your perception of reality to, in effect, narrative convenience. Siding with the underdog, against big organizations, which are sinister because of their size; something that powerful makes a credible opponent. (Wom/M)an vs society. (On the one hand, I'm against normative patterns of language. On the other... <I>eeeew</I>) But that's not the shape of it at all... there are so many people fighting to change society that there's not the same kind of rebellion in play. And the way you put things together... you can never truly learn in an ad-hoc world... If the conspiracy truly controls all knowledge, then you know now, everything that you will ever know.<BR/><BR/>This is a dead end... step out of it.MWchasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195851187187771113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-77661447169580507252009-03-27T10:46:00.000-05:002009-03-27T10:46:00.000-05:00can anyone really be this obtuse and wilfully, bli...<I>can anyone really be this obtuse and wilfully, blissfully ignorant? </I><BR/><BR/>Oh, hell yes. Sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-63738340473508192742009-03-27T10:18:00.000-05:002009-03-27T10:18:00.000-05:00And that's it. My opinion is revised. Debra is not...And that's it. My opinion is revised. Debra is not a nut, she is a complete and total fucking idiot. The threshold has been crossed, there's no point trying to reason with someone like this anymore. Maybe I just like the pain though. Even you must be at the end of your patience Tom!<BR/><BR/>See previous posts for the complete list of why so far, I'm only going with her most recent droolings here.<BR/><BR/>She admits quite clearly that she hasn't even read HR1388 (apparently stockpiling canned goods takes up <I>so</I> much time) - but she continues to make claims about it and for it, and then explains she is reading between the lines. YOU HAVEN'T READ ANY LINES DEBRA - YOU CAN'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES IF YOU HAVEN'T READ <I>THE LINES</I>. <BR/><BR/>To claim otherwise would, well, make you look like an idiot.<BR/><BR/>So, your post on the 26th at 6:43 - not relevant. Americorps has not been hijacked. Only someone who had not read the bill and did not understand the bill would think so.<BR/><BR/>Where is your evidence that Americorps is a civilian army? Are you even vaguely aware of how much cost, time, effort and resources go into making an army? The money you cite for the bill would not even come close to doing all that AND keeping it secret.<BR/><BR/>Debra: <B>I am not good with arguments like all of you are.</B><BR/><BR/>Oh oh, wait guys. Debra is not good at this. And here we all were labouring under the illusion that she was a master of the art.<BR/><BR/>You don't have to leave - you actually have to have an argument you can back up with evidence. You actually have to KNOW ABOUT THE THINGS YOU ARE MAKING CLAIMS ABOUT. You have to address counterpoints rather than pretend they just don't exist or are the product of an agent of Lucifer. <BR/><BR/>You have done nothing of the sort.<BR/><BR/>Debra: <B>To me and other nuts the similarity of volunteerism and boot camp is found in early Nazi Germany.</B><BR/><BR/>Then you and other nuts clearly <B>are</B> complete and total fucking idiots. <BR/><BR/>But go on then, how <I>exactly</I> are there similarities between volunteerism and Nazi Germany? Boot camp and Nazi Germany could be a lot easier I guess, provided you actually explain what you mean by boot camp in this sense. But volunteerism and a facist dictatorship that carried out industrial genocide and attempted global domination via the most destructive war in the history of humanity. This I have to hear. <BR/><BR/>Don't be afraid to go into specifics, this is one of the areas I studied in some detail during my history degree and have studied in my own time since, and I'm always looking for new information.<BR/><BR/><B>Oh, by the way, in MONSANTO apples and oranges there are no seeds.</B><BR/><BR/>Oh, by the way, in the culinary bananas that you buy in a store there are no seeds. In wild, non-domesticated bananas there are. Think about it. It's a conspiracy stetching all the way back to Papau New Guinea in 5000 BCE (possibly even 8000 BCE).<BR/><BR/>Good grief.<BR/><BR/>Then, you fell for another joke didn't you Debra?<BR/><BR/>Truly you are exactly the sort of person that, if there were indeed a conspiracy, the perpetrators would just love - you believe anything you are told or shown on a video WITHOUT QUESTION. You are an IDEAL believer. And you say that we are naive.<BR/><BR/>Debra: <B>I don't know if it is fake or not. Maybe you can tell me. it looks and sounds real. And why can't videos be seen as information. It's a damn good way to spread information.</B><BR/><BR/>So videos never lie? You do remember listing the Media Establishment and THE ALTERNATIVE MEDIA as groups involved in the conspiracy, don't you? Videos apparently only lie when they don't reinforce your opinion, right Debra? If you agree with it then it is information, but if you don't, it can't be trusted. Right?<BR/><BR/>Videos are an <I>excellent</I> way to spread DIS-information too. How do <I>you</I> know which is which Debra?<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure if this is exasparating, horrifying, a Poe or a bad dream. can anyone really be this obtuse and wilfully, blissfully ignorant? <BR/><BR/>Until Debra starts to actually address an argument and the counters to it, I see no reason why anyone should politely try and point out the failings <I>again</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-14802589834775990872009-03-27T06:32:00.000-05:002009-03-27T06:32:00.000-05:00You know what I don't understand? Even if you assu...You know what I don't understand? Even if you assume the NWO (a) exist, and (b) <I>are</I> up to Undefined Evil Schemes, what good is hoarding canned food in a bunker going to do? What are the NWO going to do to you that's <I>worse</I> than hiding in a bunker eating canned corn and being terrified for the rest of your life? Thanks, but I think I'd rather take slavery - at least you get to speak to people. I've <I>done</I> the whole hiding in the hills bit - it's fun for a while, but you wouldn't want to spend your entire life that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-55639136653279388122009-03-27T02:00:00.000-05:002009-03-27T02:00:00.000-05:00So reading tonight I see yet more complete lack of...So reading tonight I see yet more complete lack of humor, an odd appeal to nature and tradition, and a whine about GMO companies designing seeds that make them money.<BR/><BR/>Tom's already dealt with the Cronkite issue. I want to have a brief word on the other two.<BR/><BR/>Debra, who cares if humans have collected seed for thousands of years? Why does that make it better than modern technological advances in agriculture? Hell, agriculture is a late-breaking development in human history. For <I>tens of thousands of years</I> before it was developed, humans were exclusively hunter-gatherers. Between one thing and another, agriculture, which required technological innovations like plowing and terracing and irrigation, as well as the domestication of plant and animal life, worked better to feed the growing numbers of many cultures, and so tens of thousands of years of h/g were forgotten and people moved forward.<BR/><BR/>I can imagine a Late Natufian Debra screaming from the hilltops about the evils of agricultural advancement. "No!" she yells in some proto-Sumerian click language, "This is all wrong! You cannot trust the farmers who think we should only save the best, most robust seeds for next season's planting! It is unnatural to pick and choose which seeds to plant based on their overall success! It is dangerous! It is an affront to our ancestors who ate whatever was lying on the ground! Stop cultivating!"<BR/><BR/>Because, really, that's the neolithic equivalent of the anti-GMO craze. Luddism is Luddism, regardless of epoch. GMO foods are really no different than cultivated strains that are modified slowly over generations to meet specific societal and environmental needs; they just come faster and, despite your fear-mongering, <I>with a higher level of safety and precision</I>. Luddism is Luddism, regardless of epoch.<BR/><BR/>As for your whining that terminator genes allow major GM agricultural corporations to make more money by forcing farmers to buy seeds every year, well, a hippie might have a problem with that, but why do you? You've told us you're a Libertarian. A company protecting its IP and coming up with new ways to exploit their market to make a higher profit is just capitalism in action. Terminator genes are just a novel way to make more money for offering a product, and if the need to buy seeds every year doesn't sit well with farmers or agribusiness, well, then they're free to keep buying regular seeds and saving their own from year to year. So what's the problem? Clever marketing isn't exploitation, it's a smart investment.<BR/><BR/>So why the fuss over terminator genes?Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06661441668625677468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-45257848421922476122009-03-27T00:07:00.000-05:002009-03-27T00:07:00.000-05:00So are short summaries that can be read in 5-10 mi...<B>So are short summaries that can be read in 5-10 minutes at the most, but we don't see you looking at them.</B><BR/><BR/>Awww, SNAP!Tom Fosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796424725228769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-19027574015674647322009-03-27T00:06:00.000-05:002009-03-27T00:06:00.000-05:00I don't know if it is fake or not. Maybe you can t...<B>I don't know if it is fake or not. Maybe you can tell me. it looks and sounds real.</B><BR/><BR/>Forgive me if I don't trust your judgment.<BR/><BR/><B>And why can't videos be seen as information. It's a damn good way to spread information.</B><BR/><BR/>It's also a damn good way to spread misinformation, which is part of why you got into this mess in the first place. But I didn't say anything about "information," I said something about <I>evidence</I>. Specifically, evidence that there's a global conspiracy. Evidence that HR 1388 is creating a drafted civilian army. Evidence that GMOs cause non-GMO fields to go sterile. Evidence for <I>any</I> of the claims you've made in the last hundred posts. <BR/><BR/>Or, at the very least, a good argument. Does the video have a good argument? Does it have any evidence for anything?<BR/><BR/>Thankfully, I don't need to wait for YouTube to load to find out. The <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Cronkite#Outspoken_commentary" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia entry on Cronkite</A> has some of the speech quoted. Even more thankfully, I found the <A HREF="http://www.worldbeyondborders.org/cronkite.htm" REL="nofollow">full text</A> of Cronkite's speech (in <A HREF="http://www.dwfed.org/pp_cronkite.html" REL="nofollow">two places</A>, but neither one with the "right hand of Satan" line intact). I recommend you grow what's known in most circles as a "sense of humor," Debra. It would have saved you with that Onion video, and it would save you with this one.<BR/><BR/>I hate to explain the joke and thus rob it of any humor, but here's the jist: Cronkite, respected newsman, favors a centralized global government. You can agree or disagree with his arguments; I don't really care how you feel about it. In advocating such a government, he notes that some far-right Christians say that we won't (and can't) have a global government until Jesus comes back, and "Any attempt to achieve world order before that time must be the work of the Devil!" So according to Pat Robertson and the other far-right Christians Cronkite cites here, if you work for world peace and global governance, and Jesus hasn't come back yet, then you must be working for the Devil. If working for peace and global unity means working for the Devil, says Cronkite, then I guess I'm working for the Devil. And since I'm proud to be working for peace and global unity, says Cronkite, then I guess I'm proud to be working for the Devil. <BR/><BR/>In other words, Debra, he finds the Robertsonian notion that peace and global unity are the Devil's work to be <I>patently absurd</I>, and he is using humor to point out that absurdity. <BR/><BR/>Incidentally, <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inu9vKXsrFA" REL="nofollow">this</A> is the most complete video I could find of the speech (though I didn't look too hard), and it makes some really massive editing cuts. Most notably, a cut makes it look like he's accusing Pat Robertson of crimes against humanity, when even a casual glance at the actual speech reveals that he says nothing of the sort. <BR/><BR/>I notice that he stumbles a bit over the joke (and you might notice that <I>the audience laughs</I>. I guess someone got it), which suggests that he's ad-libbing, which would also explain why the joke isn't in the printed full-text versions of the speech. <BR/><BR/>So, again, where's the sinister plot for conspiratorial control of the Earth? I see a retired reporter espousing a political opinion that I don't agree with, and making a joke that I find funny and all too true. I don't see evidence for a plot to take over the world anymore than the stated goals of the Constitution Party constitute a plot to install a Christian Theocracy in the United States. Sure, the CP would like that, just like Cronkite and the WFA would like to have a global federal government, but I see nothing to suggest that either group has the means to accomplish either goal.Tom Fosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796424725228769265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-81920009958300001962009-03-26T23:35:00.000-05:002009-03-26T23:35:00.000-05:00So are short summaries that can be read in 5-10 mi...So are short summaries that can be read in 5-10 minutes at the most, but we don't see you looking at them.King of Ferretshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07893294460892136598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13030925.post-38400579778520575682009-03-26T23:12:00.000-05:002009-03-26T23:12:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.debrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062941456175687962noreply@blogger.com