The Bronze Blog: Feedin' Pen for the Troll

Saturday, September 05, 2009

Feedin' Pen for the Troll

Our most recent troll is back, and done a much bigger derail of an ID thread. Wrangling him here. Comments in that derail below the fold.

Anonymous said...

Well, I certainly wouldn't agree that we have a purpose per say, but it does fit my views rather well, in a none related way.

The Evolution of the Human race until the White Race is rather interesting, something some of you deny as well as accept (unwillingly) using the advances we have done. America, the most technologically advanced nation on the planet, we created things people could only dream of (africans, asians etc), and they now use our technology and even modify it acting like they are the creators of it.

Will we be abolished? Maybe, with the hatred for the White Race and the Anti-white propaganda spread in school with "black month' and other silly ideas (you care to mention something as negroid made?), it seems we should be ashamed of being the best, No thankyou, I want to be proud over my White History and everything we have done and will do.

I wouldn't be suprised, on the other hand, if civilized human beings would end with us if negriods or asians would take over, lacking the ability to handle the awesome technologies we have created for them, as well as the lack of ability to comprehend Democracy and value of others such as the white race.

Lets hope we can stand against the tides of evil.

9/04/2009 12:55 PM

Yakaru said...

you care to mention something as negroid made?

Ummm, how about Western civilisation?

9/04/2009 1:13 PM

MWchase said...

Let's see... I'm not quite sure what you think about the pyramids (did some white people cross the Mediterranean to conscript the Egyptians into building giant tombs?), but, more recently, the Tuskegee Institute, at least to start with, provides a bunch of fairly obvious examples.

Part of your argument relies (semi-implicitly) on the fact that science has, in previous centuries and until recently, been dominated by white people. Would you extend a similar argument regarding women?

On the other hand, as of late, there's been a shortage of American science students in higher education, and I see mainly Indian immigrants picking up the slack. Is the recent climate of anti-intellectualism the result of genetic drift?

9/04/2009 1:37 PM

James K said...

Anoymous:

First off, there have been inventions by African peoples in the past, as an example the Ethiopians were one of the first peoples to refine steel. And do I need to point out that civilisation began in Mesopotamia, not Western Europe? China and India also has sophisticated societies going long before our ancestors did.

Secondly, Western civilisation isn't a White thing, its a British thing. Both the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution (which added together are Western Civilisation) started in the United Kingdom. The thing is, there's not really any genetic difference between the British peoples and the peoples they are descended from such as the Scandinavians and the Germans. How does that work with your theory of genetic causality?

9/04/2009 3:56 PM

Anonymous said...

Is that racist still around? It does appear at the very least he's finally admitting very clearly that he IS in fact racist, instead of denying up and down that he EVER said anything about one race being superior to another. Will he deny that he made this very post?

At any rate, Bill Watterson. Never really read those comics back in the day, but I present you with this!

http://eviljoshandbilly.keentoons.com/toons/ejb08.html

This guy made a total of 10 of these cartoons and has vanished from the face of the internet. Artwork is rough but the guy is hilarious enough to deserve a full series of 15 minute shorts on Cartoon Network.

9/04/2009 4:10 PM

djfav said...

I see racist troll is back.

That last bit about the tides of evil made me laugh so hard I nearly wet myself. And I'm at work right now.

9/04/2009 4:24 PM

Laser Potato said...

That cartoon was pure win.

9/04/2009 4:39 PM

Dark Jaguar said...

The racist doesn't appear to have ever answered my question of how he explains the existance of black or asian inventors or scientists or artists or anything that one would normally call intelligent. I think he tried to say that they are just stealing, but that really does very little to explain it all. It's a blanket explanation that totally ignores the totality of examples, one with no research at all.

We aren't so chained so very completely to our genes that they dictate every single thing about us. They can't, otherwise we'd be robots that, when presented with an elk, would immediatly start hunting it. The genes simply work from a simple basis, really simple rules that tends toward their own reproduction. One is building an intelligent brain that can figure out problems on it's own. There is no need to invoke a subconcious "true" motive. Installing that frame work has no pressure, the basic rule is all that was needed. Further, as environment changes misfirings can occur, such as

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D85yrIgA4Nk

It's these misfirings brought about, especially in humans, by our own tendancy towards invention and discovery, that are the biggest way to break free of the dominance of genes. However, that's a side note. The main point is not to talk about "breaking free" so much as to point out that just because someone DOES behave some way does not mean a genetic explanation needs to be invoked to explain WHY they act that way. Two brains otherwise identical will have two different ways of behaving if they have two different environments.

(I must be absolutely clear here. This is NOT meant to give the impression that I think one "race" or another really does have superior intelligence and it's a matter of "overcoming" that weakness. There is no evidence that intelligence is in any way linked to the classic "racial" traits.)

I'll expand on my previous challenge. There ARE some genetic traits that are linked to intelligence, in terms of such conditions as down syndrome. However, notable is that these conditions are not tracable to any one "race". They are wide spread among ALL ethnicities, having the same basic effect, as though as a general rule the genetic code for how to build a human brain was similar enough that they could be changed in identical ways across that "barrier". What is your response to this? Do you believe that one race is more or less likely to have autistic kids than others, and further, what do you think of the fact that such genetic disorders seem to have the same effect, as though they have the SAME basic genes initially? Does this not completely defeat your entire premise?

9/04/2009 5:28 PM

Bronze Dog said...

Racist troll need to talk about genetics, not cherrypick history. Why are racists so terrified of discussing the Human Genome Project and such?

9/04/2009 8:02 PM

Anonymous said...

Racist racist, yes, use the word in a negative light, all it says is that I accept the true nature of our human heritage. Just like I am superior to a dog, I am superior to a negroid, facts are hard to fight.

Is it not funny that the 'viking blood', the Scandinavians, live the longest, have the safest and most advanced societies? Utopians in fact and yet, the 'white are evil' mantra still continues, 'poor negriods' and we should feel sorry for them.

Of course, you where not aware of this, and now when you are, you will deny it claiming its a conspiracy, by the 'white man' no doubt? Or maybe they written a deal with Satan himself to get does good statistics, its all fake and false, its not true. Egypt and Peru are the beams of civilizations and advancements.

Now, the asians have taken our technology, not even you seem so daft to deny this, and you have not explained that, weird isn't it? They did not actually make any of the technology, they took ours and modified it, fine, We gae them that ability, we helped them along, we tried the same with the negriod but they started wars and chaos in Africa, I remember a internew on television with a tp-notch negroid from one of these useless nations, HE HIMSELF stated that the west should STOP GIVING to them, because they cant deal with it, they need to learn to make food themselves, if we help them they cant handle it.

And when we dont give, we get blamed for being Evil.... Funny that. Oh, and did you know does Viking Scandinavians are also amongst the top aid givers in the world? Does blond blue eyed evil whites, juck.

Its sad you are ashamed of your race, its sad how the schools have made you think you got something to be ashamed of.

9/05/2009 6:14 PM

MWchase said...

The problem with aid to Africa is that lots of the MO gets laid out using preconceptions that don't apply. It's a mix of perverse incentives and memetic disconnect. In other words, lots of foreign aid was distributed by people and agencies who did not know the best way to do their job.

On a less argument note, that comparison you made... Are you suggesting that human-dog hybrids are viable?

9/05/2009 6:27 PM

Anonymous said...

Human/Dog hybrids?

Dude you need a quick lesson in biology.

9/05/2009 6:46 PM

MWchase said...

Somebody who attempts to argue genetics based on anecdotal evidence and unfounded assertions claims that my attempt to refute an analogy represents a lack of knowledge of biology.

Thank you, good sir. A thousand Alanis Morissettes could not make anyone on this earth uncertain of the definition of irony, so long as your comment remains.

9/05/2009 7:42 PM

142 comments:

Bronze Dog said...: The big problem, Gabe, is that the facts don't advance your conclusion: I would think that those people you mentioned have long life spans because they have good medical care programs. If you want to argue those life spans are not the result of modern medicine and similar reasons, you'll need to control for that sort of thing.

How about you start by showing some statistics that demonstrate they have life-extending alleles in their genome.

---

The thing I find most amusing about Gabriel: He seems to think all of history is just a narrative about genes, and that education and the exchange of knowledge has nothing to do with science.; 9/05/2009 9:48 PM
James K said...: Since logic isn't working, I thought I might use the power of music (with Apologies to Jonathan Coulton):

"Racist Troll"

And there's a racist troll
That always follows you
It's got a ruined mind
That's always hatin'

And there's a racist troll
That always follows you
Its got a filthy mouth
To swallow your thread

***

And when you're blogging late the troll is waiting up for you.

And when you post a thought he posts what passes for one too.

The troll is on your blog and on your post and on your thread.

The troll is in your eyes and in your arms and in your head.

And he is Crazy!; 9/06/2009 2:35 AM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool said:

Is it not funny that the 'viking blood', the Scandinavians, live the longest

Silly racist tool

There's only one "Viking" country in the top 10.

And as for safety, take a look at this. Japan comes just behind the Scandinavian countries, and way ahead of the USA. Take a look what other countries come ahead of the USA, such well known white places as Senegal, China, Jordan, Zambia, Egypt, Ghana, Libya, Kuwait, Botswana, South Korea...

Racist tool.; 9/06/2009 12:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Racists like Gabe, and his white supremacist redneck mates, suffer from insecurity complexes so deep that they have to invent something to make them feel superior to all those folk they feel inferior to.The problem with Gabes "White folks invented everything" spiel is that he and his fellow white supremacists are so thick that they never invented a thing worthy of inclusion in civilized society. So they can't even include themselves in their narrowly defined "superior" group.
Racists are a joke. A bad one for sure but still a joke.

JS;); 9/06/2009 2:53 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Yeah. One of the big problems I see in Gabe's rhetoric about "trained monkeys" is that he doesn't want to admit there are lots and lots of white people that fit that description, too.

Given his complete inability to grasp basic logic about multiple possible causes, he more than likely qualifies.; 9/06/2009 4:12 PM
MWchase said...: On a note of curiosity, I wonder whether he's using a speech-to-text setup and not bothering to sanity-check the results. He seems to have a... not-my accent, if that's the case.; 9/06/2009 6:34 PM
Valhar2000 said...: I love how he demonstrates a compelte lack of understanding of technology and research, when he talks about asians taken "our" technology and modifying it.

He doesn't realize that all these asians are actually designing the new products they sell every year: Japan is where all the good research on imaging for digital cameras is done, and Taiwan is where all the motherbaord designing action is nowadays.

That's right, Gabe! The slanty-eyed zipper-heads now understand our own inventions better than we do! Ain't that a bitch! How the hell did they manage to do that with all those inferior genes they have?

Inquiring, non-moronic minds want to know.; 9/07/2009 10:41 AM
Anonymous said...: The big problem, Gabe, is that the facts don't advance your conclusion: I would think that those people you mentioned have long life spans because they have good medical care programs. If you want to argue those life spans are not the result of modern medicine and similar reasons, you'll need to control for that sort of thing.

How about you start by showing some statistics that demonstrate they have life-extending alleles in their genome.

Yes, and where did this medical technology come from? I assume you believe it was summoned by a negriod shaman in Africa, correct? And he give them his wisdom so they can live that long.

Why derail the posts with genome? You are the one that constantly want to change topic, we shall come back to this further down......

The thing I find most amusing about Gabriel: He seems to think all of history is just a narrative about genes, and that education and the exchange of knowledge has nothing to do with science.

Play with Strawmen and you might get burned.....

No, WE spoke about cultural systems and you admitted that, say, Zambia has an inferior culture to America, and yet, you then said it had nothing to do with PEOPLE, but, using that logic, the culutre comes from a magical force outside of human control, and people are not responsible for their culture, a very strange view.

You have said this, You claimed that culture has nothing to do with people, So where does culture comes from? Where does the 'you shall not kill' mantra come from? A mountain decided it? Or a plant maybe? Or was it the people who created the society?

Culture is its people, Inferior culture, INFERIOR PEOPLE by DEFINITION, I ant understand how you could not grasp this.

There's only one "Viking" country in the top 10.

And as for safety, take a look at this. Japan comes just behind the Scandinavian countries, and way ahead of the USA. Take a look what other countries come ahead of the USA, such well known white places as Senegal, China, Jordan, Zambia, Egypt, Ghana, Libya, Kuwait, Botswana, South Korea...

If you would count the WHITE areas of America, you would notice a drastic difference, the main areas of crime in the America are from NEGRIODS as well as spicks and other scum, We are a MELTING POT thats why, idiot.

Yeah. One of the big problems I see in Gabe's rhetoric about "trained monkeys" is that he doesn't want to admit there are lots and lots of white people that fit that description, too.

Given his complete inability to grasp basic logic about multiple possible causes, he more than likely qualifies.

One again Bronze, I feel insulted that you cant be professional and debate this on a adult level, you take refuge in your followers insults and blatant claims without basis, I am 'evil racist troll', therefore I am wrong, right? You also make up alot of things, and then burn them, showing how good you are to your followers, who agree to anything without questioning it, because thats what they are suppose to do.

Once again, to your quote, NO, WE HAVE DISCUSSED MEMES EARLIER, REMEMBER? YOU CLAIMED MEMES ARE NOT MADE BY HUMANS BUT BY SOME OTHER OUTSIDE FORCE, PEOPLE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR CULTURE IT JUST HAPPENS....

Remember?

Funny that, because I take responsibility for my actions, you seem to say no one is responsible for their actions and culture, it just, magically, happens. Or do you want to amend your earlier statements?; 9/07/2009 12:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Like stated earlier, the White world is the best, very simple. America is, technologically, culturally etc, White, and the most advanced nation on the planet, the envy of the world dude, and What negative things do we have? Yes, VIOLENCE and CRIME from a MAJORITY of negrio population.

We got assholes everywhere, but we speak about SOCIETIES here, entire nations, not specific persons, and the white ones are the best.

Now back to the Asians, yes, we gave them their technology, we GAVE THEM the ability to do what they do now, before that they ouldn't do anything, they where third world countries, and now they handling it very well, that is good, similarly, We also gave technology to negriods, and it went CHAOTIC, wars murders and rape, they couldn't handle it, it seems the asians had the ability to handle it, good.

So the Scandinavians, some of the best countries you could live in according to all statistics, being primarly White, or 'aryan' (using the 'new' definition of it as Blond, Blue eyed etc, yes, I am aware of the history of the WORD aryan, idiot, so please) color is in no way related to being such terrific places?

You dont think that America would be a bit better if we got rid of the negriod rapists and murderers we got on the street? You cant be serious.

(Got a html error when posting the entire response, very strange, whats up with that Dog? Said HTML cant accept etc???); 9/07/2009 12:43 PM
Anonymous said...: He doesn't realize that all these asians are actually designing the new products they sell every year: Japan is where all the good research on imaging for digital cameras is done, and Taiwan is where all the motherbaord designing action is nowadays.

And the keyword here is: Nowdays....

And where did the original come from? Oh yes, White man.

That's right, Gabe! The slanty-eyed zipper-heads now understand our own inventions better than we do! Ain't that a bitch! How the hell did they manage to do that with all those inferior genes they have?

Wow, you insult the asians and look down on them because they got 'slanty-eyes', and you call me racist? You should look in a mirror, what you are doing is called self-projection, Freud spoke about this, read a couple of books idiot.

Oh, and STAWMAN as well.

Inquiring, non-moronic minds want to know.

To starwman points? Nope, you seem to missed my detailed exchange with Dog about culture, something he whises to forget as well it seems. Idiot.; 9/07/2009 12:47 PM
MWchase said...: How terrible that you can't discern sarcasm...

I think part of your source of 'strawman!' accusations comes from the fact that you don't explain the causation you're positing between 'black' and 'mentally/morally/whatever weak'. What is it that lets you look at a black man and determine that you're "better"? You call 'strawman!' whenever we try to guess what the link is supposed to be. Again, explain this, or shut up about it.

When Bronze Dog asked you whether you'd controlled for medical technology in correlating between race and lifespan, you said...

Yes, and where did this medical technology come from? I assume you believe it was summoned by a negriod shaman in Africa, correct? And he give them his wisdom so they can live that long.

wut

I don't

that doesn't

you didn't

There is no way for a sane, well-informed person to connect those two things in any meaningful fashion. None.; 9/07/2009 1:25 PM
djfav said...: Now listen here, you racist, xenophobic, eugenics mongering piece of shit. You should try following your own fucking advice about straw man arguments. Nobody said people had nothing to do with culture. Maybe that's what you thought someone said, but the fact of the matter is nobody said it. I defy you to point out where someone said that people have nothing to do with culture. Now, when you go looking for those exact words and find yourself unable to locate them, I'd like you to do just one thing for me. Consider that you might be the dumbest fucking person on the face of the internet. Can you do that for me, shit for brains?; 9/07/2009 2:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe that's what you thought someone said, but the fact of the matter is nobody said it.

Wow, thew first coherent question you ever askedinstead of "fuck you" and "asshole", I am impressed, you learn something, welcome out of the cave little man.

Now, oh, yes, BRONZE DOG DID!!!

He stated that the people of a society is not responsible for its culture (meme) and therefore, indirectly, states that people are not responsible for their society and/or actions.

I asked him if he wants to amend his previous statement, you may go back, way back, in the blog somewhere where he indeed states, after me asking if the people are not responsible for their own Culture, he said NO!!!

Maybe you should ask Dog to explain himself?; 9/07/2009 4:47 PM
djfav said...: Care to reproduce the exact wording of that exchange? I don't think you can do it.; 9/07/2009 4:59 PM
djfav said...: Honesty, I don't see how you can produce that text and maintain that someone said what you think they said. I know where it is. I know what was said. And you are erecting a straw man in order to play another one of your little games of gotcha. I'm making you do all the work in hopes that you will learn something about what a straw man argument is. You are deliberately misrepresenting that exchange. I challenge you to reproduce it or link to it and explain to me why your argument is not a straw man.; 9/07/2009 5:07 PM
djfav said...: "Wow, thew [sic] first coherent question you ever askedinstead [sic] of "fuck you" and "asshole", I am impressed, you learn something, welcome out of the cave little man."

Oh, and you can go fuck yourself, preferably with something sharp and rusty.; 9/07/2009 5:18 PM
djfav said...: I'm getting impatient, you demented fuckwit.

Show me where someone said that people have nothing to do with culture.

Show me where someone said that people have nothing to do with memes.

Show me where someone said that people are not responsible for their culture.

Show me where someone said that people are not responsible for their actions.

Show me now.; 9/07/2009 5:56 PM
djfav said...: Oh, and show me where someone said people are not responsible for their society. That should about do it.; 9/07/2009 6:04 PM
djfav said...: For fuck's sake, there's just so much wrong with everything you say that I keep finding something else that needs to be pointed out.

You are equivocating when it comes to culture and memes. Memes are units of cultural ideas.

All of your straw men amount to red herrings anyway.

Let's see, what else...

Oh, anyone who uses the phrase "by definition" in an argument is (by definition?) a fucking moron.

You whine about being insulted, complain that we're not being professional, and moan something about immaturity. I find highly this amusing. You're first comment here compared the President of the United States to an ape. Classy.; 9/07/2009 6:25 PM
djfav said...: Fucking typos.; 9/07/2009 6:25 PM
djfav said...: "Why derail the posts with genome? You are the one that constantly want to change topic, we shall come back to this further down......"

Bringing up the human genome is directly relevant to your outrageous claim of white supremacy.

It is you that derailed that earlier thread. And the one before that...

Since you're so big on Freud, I believe he called this projection.; 9/07/2009 6:40 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Thanks, bro, for pointing out all the shit that's gotten me a great deal more cross in my tone.

Of course, the real point I was making was that a person isn't responsible for the memes inside OTHER people's heads and the libraries. I have zero responsibility for the fact that I was born in Texas.

Responsibility only comes in when I choose which memes to be dominant in my head, and what new memes to develop and spread by building on them. I've got the "faith" meme in my head, for example, but I've beaten it to a bloody pulp.

Of course, Gabe, you can't expect me to read your mind (though given the crazy we've seen from you so far, I might wonder). I even gave you a thread to explain what you're actually arguing, and the first thing you posted amounted to, "WAAAAAAH! djfav is being mean!"

If you don't want us erecting straw men, stop running and hiding.

And while I was typing, my brother provided another excellent example of crazy: You're advancing a conclusion about human genetics, but genetics are irrelevant?

Why are you so scared to talk about genes?; 9/07/2009 6:51 PM
djfav said...: Just to clarify...

Anyone who uses the phrase "by definition" to make an empirical claim is (by definition?) a fucking moron.; 9/07/2009 7:04 PM
Bronze Dog said...: The funny thing about the "by definition" thing about culture: Culture is circumstantial, and largely irrelevant to genetics. Culture is learned behavior, and people are able to learn new things to overcome that circumstance. You might as well claim poor people as a whole are inferior to the rich because they were born in worse circumstances.

Of course, Gabe's talk of superior culture makes me wonder how he calculates that. Does the presence of anti-intellectualism in America (especially the south) make it superior even though scientists excel despite that purely destructive meme? We're talking about a culture that rejects the meme foundation of all the good stuff while claiming to be entitled to its benefits.; 9/07/2009 7:09 PM
Valhar2000 said...: Wow! This guy does nto understand technology, he does nto understand history or current affairs, and he does not even understand irony.

He has to be kidding! No-one could be that stupid and still be able to type and breath at the same time!; 9/08/2009 3:20 AM
Anonymous said...: "Why are you so scared to talk about genes?"

Because redneck "superior" white folks like Gabe don't like to mention the fact that their "Kwisatz Haderach" status is just a fantasy. If there was some redneck eugenic program to breed superior white folks it failed, because incest produces guys like Gabe.; 9/08/2009 3:26 AM
Bronze Dog said...: Insomnia email check ended up making me think of something very, very simple to ask Gabe.

What factors are necessary for a person to make scientific discoveries or new technologies? Be as thorough in your answer as you can.; 9/08/2009 4:00 AM
Dunc said...: Negroid!? Has somebody been at the phrenology textbooks again?; 9/08/2009 4:28 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: As someone who spent the better part of half a year in Guatemala, I can say that the culture there is more "laid-back" and, to a Western eye, can appear to be lazy, but that if you only allow for a surface reading.

A piece of equipment breaks down and half the workers will leave, just leave. If this were to happen on an American job site, there'd be uproar, but this is expected in South America because repair of the machine takes time and materials, two things in short supply in most South American countries.

And, no, that's not because of refusal to set up manufacturing plants to produce the goods or people too lazy to sell them, it's because the resources for industry just ain't found in large enough quantity in South America. You can't make a new auger bit when you don't have high-quality iron, and importing such items is expensive and therefore such items are rare.

Also, there's a peculiar conservativism to decision-making, at least from the experiences I had at the sites I worked at. Any new idea or new approach requires careful, considerate examination.

Both memes makes sense when you consider Guatemalan society as being that of a country that emerged from a pure subsistence economy less than a century ago. If the energy of your work is going to be wasted, you don't work, because exhaustion kills. It's a tough meme to shake.

But it doesn't make Guatemalan workers inferior. On the contrary, their techniques for stretching the utility of building materials, their ability to adapt tools to uses Western construction wouldn't consider, and their willingness to put up with long delays and missed wages but still show up to the job site, are commendable.

And not at all genetic.; 9/08/2009 7:59 AM
Bronze Dog said...: One related concept to Dweller's example: In America, it seems like there are bosses who only exist to hand out busywork or hold useless meetings: The appearance of labor is more important to those sorts than actual efficiency.

One more reason on top of the pile that people shouldn't blindly trust appearances.; 9/08/2009 8:09 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Which reminds me - BD, I need those TPS reports first thing Tuesday.; 9/08/2009 8:11 AM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool said:

If you would count the WHITE areas of America, you would notice a drastic difference, the main areas of crime in the America are from NEGRIODS as well as spicks and other scum, We are a MELTING POT thats why, idiot.

You fucking racist tool - how does this bullshit reasoning explain the fact that all those other primarily 'non-white' (as you would claim it) countries still ranked above the USA? Shouldn't countries with even less 'white' people in them than the US do even worse by your pathetic attempt at reasoning?

And how come you ignored the fact that the Scandinavian countries didn't do as well as you claimed either - what is their excuse?

Oh, and you never did answer this either:

How do you define the term 'white' in reference to people anyway?; 9/08/2009 9:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Jealousy and anger, the signs of people with diluted blood.

Other have pure Viking blood in us, others are engineers and thinkers, and the less pure blood, the more savage we get.

AFRICA anyone?; 9/08/2009 2:03 PM
Dweller in Darkness said...: A highly overrated album. Really, they stopped being prog rock right around the middle of Hydra, although some arguments can be made for a couple of songs on Fahrenheit.

What? Oh, the continent?

Yes, rather a savage place in parts, despite "whites" having attempted to settle it for at least as long as the States. Almost as though the lack of essential resources for a Western civilization stifles the growth of Western civilization.; 9/08/2009 2:27 PM
Dweller in Darkness said...: A highly overrated song. Really, they stopped being prog rock right around the middle of Hydra, although some arguments can be made for a couple of songs on Fahrenheit.

What? Oh, the continent?

Yes, rather a savage place in parts, despite "whites" having attempted to settle it for at least as long as the States. Almost as though the lack of essential resources for a Western civilization stifles the growth of Western civilization.; 9/08/2009 2:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Dweller, your ignorance is impressive.

South America was a prosperous nation when the whites ran it, and then the negriods started murdering the whites stealing their farms...

Do you KNOW what happened? Well they took over the farms.. And then the farms collapsed because they lacked the ability to run them, the entire nation went down.

Not to many years ago that one of the negriod leaders in S. Africa said that HIV and AIDS is not related, and you should east more carrots instead, that day the Currency (Rand) went straight down to the bottom....

Funny, all whites I speak to in S Africa seems well aware of the countries path now, and even the negriods seem well aware of how nice it would have been to let does 'rednecks' run the country, peace and love and wealth and all that.

Yes, lets talk about Africa and the 'bad' white influence ....; 9/08/2009 2:38 PM
djfav said...: Double post magic!

Anyway, I think Gabe has run out of material.

All this talk of "pure" blood makes me wonder if he accepts common ancestry.; 9/08/2009 2:39 PM
djfav said...: Oh, maybe not. More of the usual.

Yawn.; 9/08/2009 2:40 PM
MWchase said...: So, how bad an engineer do you expect somebody with one-quarter Spanish-Cuban ancestry to be?

How much of a taint upon one's character is that?

(Man, the only taint I really care about is... never mind.)

Analogy time: in addition to all of the other minorities I'm a member of, one in particular used to be looked down on. We now know it to be heritable, but at the time it was looked upon purely as a character flaw. There are stories from 150 years ago in which the characters that were a member of this minority were looked down upon. The property of belonging or not belonging to this minority, which is mostly determined by the time of birth, was seen as a symptom of absent-mindedness.

Environmental conditions caused a temporary decrease in our numbers, but we've made quite a comeback, all in all.

Before that story I mentioned, there were all sorts of outlandish beliefs about us, but I'd like to focus on the flaws I mentioned: absent-mindedness, and carelessness. Now, I have tried to reveal as little as possible about this minority. Gabe, what would you need to know to decide whether those character flaws were real, or imagined?

(Bonus fact: this status skipped a generation, it seems. My blond grandfather is one, as well.); 9/08/2009 2:59 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Once again, Gabe shows a complete inability to understand what it takes to sift through noisy data.

The problem, Gabe, is that you're still doing nothing to narrow down the problem to race. You haven't even shown us the ability to tell us what race even is, much less how you eliminated all other possible factors in these scenarios.

You know, just like how alties can't tell us what "chi" or "subluxations" really are, but say they're responsible for disease, rather than known processes. Or how Creationists can't tell us what a "god" is, but know it's responsible for everything, rather than known natural causes.

As far as I can tell, you're just looking at skin color and presuming there's no other cause for anything.

Prove me wrong. Genetics. Now.

Tell me what your premises are, and the logic you use to reach your conclusion from there.; 9/08/2009 3:02 PM
Dunc said...: Other have pure Viking blood in us

Oh yeah? And how do you know that? Even a full Y-chromosome / mtDNA analysis can't tell you that. Oh, and how are you defining "pure Viking blood"?

And if the Vikings are all that great, how come their Dark Age and Medieval culture was no more sophisticated than anybody else in Northern Europe, and a good deal less mathematically, scientifically and technologically sophisticated than that of the Moors?; 9/09/2009 4:05 AM
MWchase said...: Presumably, he can tell because of the racial urge to wear horned helmets and leather, and to sing baritone arias as his ship cuts the waves.

(See, this is the thing, as I noted in the other thread that showed activity: thus far, we've seen zero evidence that Gabe understands anything about heredity. I don't know why he'd deny it... Gregor Mendel was white, after all.); 9/09/2009 6:58 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Okay, gonna need a definition check here: "negroid."

You seem to define this as, "people who don't need to tan as much as I do," which, while entertaining, doesn't really seem all that useful.

And I think you're confusing "prosperous" with "profitable." It's quite easy to make a profit when you're mostly using slave labour.; 9/09/2009 7:52 AM
Anonymous said...: FIRST PART !

Dog Dog Dog...

These accusations of Hate etc is rather
tiresome, especially since it comes from
someone that most likely never been anywhere
and seen anything, you sit behind your
desk uttering your knowledge from Wikipedia
in your little man cave. (or was that your
dads?)

I on the other hand has been on the front
line, I have seen the evils of the world.

Did you know that I have been doing volunteer
work in Africa? I have been helping these
negriods in an attempt to make the world better?
That they are inferior does not make me want
to help them less, it wants me to improve
their chances to become something instead of
the animals they are today.

I have been working at animal shelters as well
as food 'depots', handing out food to them so
they can eat for the day. I HELPED these negriods,
what have you done for the ones you so precipitously
defend?

I walked the streets of Central Johannesburg, one
of the most dangerous places in the world, because
I wanted to help these negriods, have you?

Have you ever walked down the street not knowing
that you could be, in any second, and no paranoia
involved, be stabbed to death? I had negriods coming
up to me, telling me, with sincerity, that if I did
not leave, I will get killed, "Go now, or you will
Die", thats what I have experienced my Dear Dog.

Have you had that in your life Bronze Dog? Have you
had to deal with that and continue? Thats what I did,
I continued, in the fear of death I continued helping
these negriods because I WANTED TO MAKE THE WORLD A
BETTER PLACE. I survived Africa, all from Egypt to
South America, you do not want to know what I've seen,
and no doubt you would ever believe it. I, the 'Evil
White Guy' helped these useless negriods in the hope
that they would finally be educated and make their nations
and region and world, more Stable. I hoped they would
once become as America even if I know that is just a
dream.

And I will continue to help the world, the spicks in
South America are as ignorant and lazy, and yet I HELP,
WHAT DO YOU DO BRONZE?

Is the chair warm enough for you infront of your computer?
Is Wikipedia loading up fast enough? Or server down again?
Damnit, sometimes you have to wait for that knowledge
to load up, right? Sometimes if you got a slow connection,
your 'world experience' takes awhile to load, like 30
seconds or so, dont we hate when that happens.

It is funny, seeing you, I just imagine you running
to your friends saying you where 'abroad'and 'experiencing
the world', oh they say, What happened? Well, you ended
up on a FOREIGN server when you played Counter Strike,
a Asian server, or maybe European, and they spoke all these
funny languages, they did not speak english, the world language
that Bronze speak, silly people, well your 'back now' and its
so nice to be home without does funny people speaking funny
languages, but it was an amazing experience for you being
around people so daft they did not understand what you said.

Right Bronze?

But hey, im a Evil dude because I point out that a Dog cant
build a computer, and yet I still deliver does computers to
the ones needing them, I HELP in the hope to make the world
a nice place.

But you will never care, narrow minded as you are.; 9/09/2009 5:54 PM
Anonymous said...: SECOND PART !

Okey Dog, because you no doubt need an excuse not to
address the fact that I seen and experience the world,
and you have not, lets go back to Culture, lets pretend
all you said earlier was never said, and make it clear
and simple:

If we compare to cultural units, say America and Zambia,
you see a big difference. America is a prosperous wonderful
nations where people live in peace and wealth, whiles
in Zambia you have violence and corruption and most can
not feed themselves.

Zambia or not, just using it as an example, American culture
is superior, this you accept as previously stated, so my
question is, wouldn't that mean that they, as the people of
a nation of poor culture, are Inferior?

You stated previously that it is not the 'fault' (or
somesuch, not going verbatim here) of a child that is born
in Texas for their 'backward' views, but that is not
what I said. When this child is grown up to an adult,
or mature age, something around 15 and upwards, they decided
to keep otr discard god or bad memes and even create their own
and/or morph others together.

You agree that you are responsible for your choices in
life, are you not Bronze?; 9/09/2009 5:54 PM
Bronze Dog said...: And back here.

Doggerel #194. You haven't listened to a word we've said about anecdotes, have you? Instead, you robotically spout the same cliches I hear from other branches of woo. There are a lot of quacks and psychics out there who claim to have seen more of the world, and that their experiences verify their beliefs in homeopathy or astrology. And yet, they're still unable to rule out the dozens of other explanations or pass any sort of controlled study.

In short, you seem to think that you are a god, immune to all the perceptual failings of normal people, and thus do not need to perform anything scientifically.

Oh, and I've donated money for anti-malarial mosquito nets. Nice red herring, by the way.

Meanwhile, you have yet to even attempt to narrow down the explanations to "race." You're just sitting in an ivory tower that happens to be mobile, not bothering to examine the inherent flaws in anecdotal data.

Okey Dog, because you no doubt need an excuse not to
address the fact that I seen and experience the world,
and you have not,...

Translation: "Screw science! My perceptions don't need any fancy controls, because seeing is believing! I don't need no lousy scientific method!"

I have no more reason to trust your perceptions anymore than I need to trust someone who claims to have seen thousands of successful psychics, ghosts, or Bigfoot sightings. I have no reason to believe you have some magical gene-o-vision.

lets go back to Culture, lets pretend all you said earlier was never said, and make it clear
and simple:

It was clear and simple. You, however, chose obfuscation and stalling as your "rebuttal".

But yeah, let's go ahead. I'll give you more rope.

If we compare to cultural units, say America and Zambia,
you see a big difference. America is a prosperous wonderful
nations where people live in peace and wealth, whiles
in Zambia you have violence and corruption and most can
not feed themselves.

If they can't feed themselves, they don't exactly have time to devote themselves to intellectual or artistic pursuits like education. They're going to be struggling to feed themselves.

Is this true or false?

Zambia or not, just using it as an example, American culture
is superior, this you accept as previously stated, so my
question is, wouldn't that mean that they, as the people of
a nation of poor culture, are Inferior?

The memes that make up the violent Zambian culture are "inferior." The people themselves are not inferior. Just because a computer has bad software doesn't mean the hardware's to blame.

You stated previously that it is not the 'fault' (or
somesuch, not going verbatim here) of a child that is born
in Texas for their 'backward' views, but that is not
what I said. When this child is grown up to an adult,
or mature age, something around 15 and upwards, they decided
to keep otr discard god or bad memes and even create their own
and/or morph others together.

But if they couldn't go to school as a kid, they're much less likely to have good memes to fill in the void. For example, a kid who spent his whole life indoctrinated into a cult can't easily suppress the "faith" meme if he's never been exposed to another epistemology, such as "the scientific method."

You agree that you are responsible for your choices in
life, are you not Bronze?

I get the feeling you're asking a metaphysical question instead of an empirical one. What definition of "responsible" are you using?

Is an 18 year old sheltered and homeschooled person who has never heard of evolution responsible for their Creationist tendencies?; 9/09/2009 6:22 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Minor correction: I linked to the wrong Doggerel entry. This is the correct one.; 9/09/2009 6:23 PM
Bronze Dog said...: You know, I should probably distill my point in writing up Doggerel #194, Gabe, since you ended up inspiring me to finally get around to covering that cliche in the series: The fact that you've traveled more than I have does not entail that I give up the scientific method.

"Gabriel has seen more of the world than I have, therefore I do not need to ask him to control for known alternative explanations for a phenomenon" is a non-sequitur, subtype appeal to authority.; 9/09/2009 7:13 PM
djfav said...: I do believe racist troll has just committed every type of fallacy in the book. We've got some pitiful ad hominems, useless anecdotes, emotional appeals, hasty generalizations, false theses, equivocation, strawmen...the list goes on. I'm telling you, don't make me get out my copy of With Good Reason.

And the style is atrocious. Poor spelling, bad grammar, and CAPITALIZATION, etc.

Not very persuasive.; 9/09/2009 7:21 PM
djfav said...: Oops. A strawmsn argument is a false thesis.; 9/09/2009 7:26 PM
djfav said...: Fucking typos. Always after you post.; 9/09/2009 7:28 PM
djfav said...: Oh yeah.

"(or somesuch, not going verbatim here)"

Priceless.; 9/09/2009 7:37 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: I think it's important to point out that I have every respect for wanderers, and admire world travelers as a whole. That said, traveling the world and resolutely deciding NOT to learn from any examples and NOT to try and see if there are things out there that go against your preconceptions is one of the biggest wastes there could be, right up there with a creationist getting a degree in biology while simultaneously never once considering actually believing a single thing they get taught about evolution from the start.; 9/09/2009 9:35 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: I can't seem to find my long arse posts. I think I got them in the wrong thread or something.

Anyway, the WHOLE world you say? The whole thing? You met EVERYONE in Africa? To put it another way, you met and got to know a statistically significant portion of the population of Africa? Even if we were to agree that your bias did NOT color your impression of the people as a whole (we don't), there's no reason to expect you got a good grasp at all of the people there.; 9/09/2009 9:43 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: Oh one other thing Gabe (sorry but even I have limits to my patience), you are NOT Hannibal Lector. You don't have the magical ability to discern someone's entire life story and failings from a few online posts, in spite of your presumption that you know all of our darkest secrets, you seem to be WAY off.

Most are pointing out it's irrelevent, but I thought I'd just add that it's also danged inaccurate. Is this the manner in which you determined that africans and so on are "lazy"? When you later describe this encounter to others, will you assert your random guesses as FACTS about us?; 9/09/2009 9:55 PM
MWchase said...: Dark Jaguar: try http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2009/08/blank-thread-for-gabriel.html

(Yes. He has two threads running at once. Retch.)

For the record, I've been to Austria, Hungary, Greece, and Nova Scotia (and England. It would be hilarious if I tried to generalize from that, though. Just imagine, if all of England worked like post-9/11 Heathrow.). I don't have much to say, except that I find the existence of Canadian Red Sox fans a bit odd. (Boston helped fight a fire years back, and so they've got this loyalty thing going). I went to Austria and Hungary on a trip with my high school's band and orchestra. We played for a standing-room-only crowd at the Orangerie. Two years later, under different teachers, we played for a couple dozen people at Disneyland. I found this to be an intensely underwhelming followup.

I digress. Jaguar, you aren't implying that, in portraying us as ignorant bums who mindlessly parrot what the internet tells us (see for example much of /b/), Gabe mindlessly parroted a bunch of least-common-denominator stereotypes, are you? I mean, that would be terrible. It would be like rain. On your wedding day.

(The Alanis Morissette jokes will continue until morale, I mean, Gabe's understanding of irony, improves. So, pretty much forever, it looks like.); 9/09/2009 11:41 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: Rain on a wedding day, that lady doesn't really get irony herself does she? Rain in the desert the day after you die of dehydration? THAT would be irony!; 9/10/2009 1:45 AM
Dark Jaguar said...: It's worth adding one extra point. "I went to some places" doesn't stand up much when I've heard the tales of so very many other world travelers who learned exacly the opposite thing you claim you did. What do you make of those tales? ALL of them are self deluded and can't "see" what you can?; 9/10/2009 2:21 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: And you can put be down as one of those blinkered demi-world travellers. South America mostly, with much the same intention as Gave, albeit without the racist baggage.

I'll admit, it would be far easier to attribute their behaviour to inferiority rather than just being different. When you come from a subsistence culture, there just isn't much drive to work ridiculously hard at anything. There's absolutely no reward in it and plenty of risk.

Still waiting for definitions of "negroid," an explanation as to why prosperity through slavery is better than survival while free and, while we're at it, the country of South America labelled on a map. I thought I knew all the countries to the south of us, but that's a new one.; 9/10/2009 7:55 AM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool is ingoring the questions now:

You fucking racist tool - how does this bullshit reasoning explain the fact that all those other primarily 'non-white' (as you would claim it) countries still ranked above the USA? Shouldn't countries with even less 'white' people in them than the US do even worse by your pathetic attempt at reasoning?

And how come you ignored the fact that the Scandinavian countries didn't do as well as you claimed either - what is their excuse?

Oh, and you never did answer this either:

How do you define the term 'white' in reference to people anyway?

More from racist tool:

Dweller, your ignorance is impressive.

South America was a prosperous nation when the whites ran it,

Talking about impressive ignorance, when was South America (your words, not mine) ever a prosperous nation run by whites? Since you meant South Africa though, where is your proof that it has become worse since Nelson Mandela and then his successors took over?

I survived Africa, all from Egypt to South America

And which part of Africa is South America in?

Impressive ignorance indeed...; 9/10/2009 12:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Dog...

My Lord and Saviour, I am very
disappointed, I assumed you would
be getting my travelling reference,
and instead you used it as an excuse
and strawman, sad.

The point is, Dog, that I seen these
negriods and spicks in action, something
you have not. You sit there infront of
your computer 'knowing the world' whiles
I live it. I do not pretend to be a god
or all knowing, but I DO want to point
out that I BEEN THERE and I SEEN IT and
so forth, in the same way you would respect
your father having more experience of the
world then you, you would have some understanding,
whatever you "get it" or not, that
I seen and experienced more then you in
this field.

I do NOT claim I am 'all right' and 'knowing',
but I do expect respect for my knowledge and
experiences when I point out basic things you
never experienced or seen.

That was my point of telling you some of
my experiences, I also stated at the end
that you may or would most likely, ignore it,
as you did,

End of part I; 9/10/2009 1:24 PM
Anonymous said...: You then continue to give excuses to the spicks and negriods sasying they lack the education and technology, infrastructure or
whatnot, yes, they do lack that, thats not an EXCUSE, that is a confirmation of their inferiority, Why do not WE lack this? Why
have WE accomplished this?

This is not a big conspiracy against the spicks or 'black man', this is just facts, they cant
deal with it and lack the ability, very simple my dear Bronze.

The white man has built the wonderful world you live in today, it is because of the white
man you (or your dad) can have a 'man cave'. The negriods live, as they always done, in the
savanna hardly being able to feed themselves whiles we thrive on our intelligence and understanding,
Heil Science. We try to help and give, the billions we give and assistance we send, to no avail, as
they turn around starting to murder eachother and us for their own personal "gain" not realizing what
they would get for some cooperation and civilization.

I even MADE an example of the asians who, some of them (Japanese for example) can take the technology we give them and use it. We got other in asia who can not, and similarly to negriods, go into a frenzy of murder and chaos (Myanmar/Burma comes to mind).

Just because you point out that a dog cant make what we can, does mot make you a bad person, it has become politically 'incorrect' to speak of certain truths, you must be aware of this, atheism is not seen as something good in the political spectrum, and similar the superiority of races is the same, now everyone is 'equal' even when
one of them is begging for scraps.

Lets hope the truth prevails to make the world a better place, when people understand their place
in the world we will have less problems as they can understand and get the education they need.

When I been in these countries (for your own understanding, as it is clear you never will go there): It was like a different world, like going back in evolutionary time.

They walk like our ancestors walked, when homo erectus walked, when In the middle of Africa, in
a nation where it is normal... Oh, I tell you about it later, This do for now.; 9/10/2009 1:26 PM
Anonymous said...: You then continue to give excuses to the
spicks and negriods sasying they lack the
education and technology, infrastructure or
whatnot, yes, they do lack that, thats not
an EXCUSE, that is a confirmation of their
inferiority, Why do not WE lack this? Why
have WE accomplished this?

This is not a big conspiracy against the spicks
or 'black man', this is just facts, they cant
deal with it and lack the ability, very simple
my dear Bronze.

The white man has built the wonderful world
you live in today, it is because of the white
man you (or your dad) can have a 'man cave'.
The negriods live, as they always done, in the
savanna hardly being able to feed themselves
whiles we thrive on our intelligence and understanding,
Heil Science. We try to help and give, the billions
we give and assistance we send, to no avail, as
they turn around starting to murder eachother and
us for their own personal "gain" not realizing what
they would get for some cooperation and civilization.

I even MADE an example of the asians who, some of
them (Japanese for example) can take the technology
we give them and use it. We got other in asia who
can not, and similarly to negriods, go into a
frenzy of murder and chaos (Myanmar/Burma comes to
mind).

Just because you point out that a dog cant make
what we can, does mot make you a bad person, it
has become politically 'incorrect' to speak of
certain truths, you must be aware of this, atheism
is not seen as something good in the political
spectrum, and similar the superiority of races
is the same, now everyone is 'equal' even when
one of them is begging for scraps.

Lets hope the truth prevails to make the world
a better place, when people understand their place
in the world we will have less problems as they
can understand and get the education they need.

When I been in these countries (for your own
understanding, as it is clear you never will go
there): It was like a different world, like going
back in evolutionary time.

They walk like our ancestors walked, when homo
erectus walked, when In the middle of Africa, in
a nation where it is normal... Oh, I tell you about
it later, This do for now.

South AFRICA, misspelled and if you read the post you would understand that (speaking of Africa). Moron.

South America is a Continent, Africa is a continent, South Africa is a nation in the south of Africa, moron.

South Africa as a wonderful place when whites ran it, to repeat.

This is my point, you are TRAGIC, you would CRY if we met in real life, the only thing oyu got is to ATTACK people if they spell something wrong.

STOP THERE, STOP NOW, think about it, do you dare? Do you dare look at yourself NOW? You just attacked someone because he spelled something wrong, and then made out as i would not know something which I specifically spoke (detailed) about? Is that not tragic?

LOOK AT YOURSELF NOW, do you dare? Do you dare to ask for forgiveness for your behaviour instead of being mature, talking about this with common sense? No, of course not, insults is your only defence.; 9/10/2009 1:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Quoted wrong text, somehow:

Talking about impressive ignorance, when was South America (your words, not mine) ever a prosperous nation run by whites? Since you meant South Africa though, where is your proof that it has become worse since Nelson Mandela and then his successors took over?

THIS was it ->

South AFRICA, misspelled and if you read the post you would understand that (speaking of Africa). Moron.

South America is a Continent, Africa is a continent, South Africa is a nation in the south of Africa, moron.

South Africa as a wonderful place when whites ran it, to repeat.

This is my point, you are TRAGIC, you would CRY if we met in real life, the only thing oyu got is to ATTACK people if they spell something wrong.

STOP THERE, STOP NOW, think about it, do you dare? Do you dare look at yourself NOW? You just attacked someone because he spelled something wrong, and then made out as i would not know something which I specifically spoke (detailed) about? Is that not tragic?

LOOK AT YOURSELF NOW, do you dare? Do you dare to ask for forgiveness for your behaviour instead of being mature, talking about this with common sense? No, of course not, insults is your only defence.; 9/10/2009 1:32 PM
djfav said...: Gabe, you are unhinged. Seek help. I have nothing further to say to you.; 9/10/2009 1:48 PM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Agreed. I'm all for chatting with trolls, but once they start foaming at the mouth, onward and outward I go.; 9/10/2009 2:10 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: Most of us DO spend a lot of time self-analyzing. It's kinda how we came to find our various ridiculous beliefs wrong. Pot, kettle, black.

Further, you seem to ignore the VAST attempts at debating you, all our points, to focus specifically on cases of us noting your spelling error or some random insults. Seriously, are you so offended by those insults that it blinds you to even noticing that we are ALSO, independant of those insults, actually trying to debate you?

The one time I brought up your grammar was actually to point something out to you, that you aren't so "great" as you seem to think. It was actually on-topic. Heck, for that matter, if you truly think that race matter so much, and you assume us all to be white, then aren't you kinda defeating your own argument when you call us all morons?; 9/10/2009 4:26 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: Gabe, it seems all you've been doing for several posts is simply restating your own premises over and over again without actually supporting them. Support your position!; 9/10/2009 4:27 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Hit the character limit. Part 1:

On personal experience:

...You're illiterate, aren't you, Gabe?

Did you even read anything we've said regarding anecdotes? Do you even know what a skeptic is? Do you even know anything whatsoever about the philosophy of science?

How are you different than all the nuts we have to deal with who say their "clinical experience" shows that sugar pills that touched diluted water cure people? (Homeopaths, in other words)

You're filled with the exact same anti-science memes as all the quacks, psychics, Creationists, conspiracy nuts, and so on and so on and so on. Your problem is so fundamental, I have to resort to exaggeration to shock you out of your cliches.

You then continue to give excuses to the spicks and negriods sasying they lack the education and technology, infrastructure or
whatnot, yes, they do lack that, thats not an EXCUSE, that is a confirmation of their inferiority, Why do not WE lack this? Why
have WE accomplished this?

So, how does this "race" thing prevent them from developing these things? How does "whiteness" encourage them?

That's one of the central points you've been avoiding this whole time. It's like you expect us to believe genetics are magic.

Oh, and you might want to try exploring the idea of "feedback loops" and similar phenomena.

This is not a big conspiracy against the spicks or 'black man', this is just facts, they cant
deal with it and lack the ability, very simple my dear Bronze.

Who brought up the idea of conspiracy?

The problem, of course, is that the facts you present are far, far too noisy to support your conclusion.; 9/10/2009 4:54 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Part 2:

The white man has built the wonderful world you live in today, it is because of the white
man you (or your dad) can have a 'man cave'. The negriods live, as they always done, in the
savanna hardly being able to feed themselves whiles we thrive on our intelligence and understanding,
Heil Science. We try to help and give, the billions we give and assistance we send, to no avail, as
they turn around starting to murder eachother and us for their own personal "gain" not realizing what they would get for some cooperation and civilization.

You've obviously chosen to ignore all the non-white contributions, including one of the foundations built by Arabs: Large chunks of modern mathematics. Also, we have a lot of Japanese-manufactured products, which they used the scientific method to improve upon the work of others.

And it's hilarious that you talk of science the way that parapsychologists do: They want all the glamor associated with it, but have precisely zero understanding of what it took.

I also notice that you're ignoring the various African nations that rose up in history.

Of course, you have yet to provide any evidence that "race" exists as anything more than a few cosmetic alleles. Still too scared to discuss the raw genetic data that you have to bury it in the noise of world politics and, worst of all, your personal experience.

I even MADE an example of the asians who, some of them (Japanese for example) can take the technology we give them and use it. We got other in asia who can not, and similarly to negriods, go into a frenzy of murder and chaos (Myanmar/Burma comes to mind).

And we've got plenty of presumed "negroids" in America who can understand and improve on technologies if they've got the same educational background.

We've also got a lot of "white" trained monkeys who can use technology and other fruits of science without understanding what led to it. Like Creationists. And alties. And parapsychologists. And conspiracy nuts. And you.

Try reading a book on the philosophy of science.

Just because you point out that a dog cant make what we can, does mot make you a bad person, it has become politically 'incorrect' to speak of certain truths, you must be aware of this, atheism is not seen as something good in the political spectrum, and similar the superiority of races is the same, now everyone is 'equal' even when one of them is begging for scraps.

The difference between atheism and racism is that racism isn't logically tenable. Can't you see that your arguments have the same "logical" structure as any pseudoscientist's?

If you knew even the slightest thing about how scientists and skeptics think, you might actually be capable of presenting something thought provoking, instead of something we already know and have dozens of real hypotheses to account for.; 9/10/2009 4:56 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Part 3:

Lets hope the truth prevails to make the world a better place, when people understand their place
in the world we will have less problems as they can understand and get the education they need.

Education is a key resource. That's the point. This magical, unproven concept of "race" has nothing to do with it. You haven't even come up with a definition for what you're making a conclusion about.

Kind of reminds me of Creationist Michael Egnor saying that "Biological information" cannot increase. When asked what he means by "biological information" he says it's up to the biologists to define it. In other words, he knows a conclusion about something he doesn't know anything about.

When I been in these countries (for your own understanding, as it is clear you never will go there): It was like a different world, like going back in evolutionary time.

...You don't even know what evolution is, do you?

---

And thus we have Gabe stuck in a loop. All he can do is assert his Authority, never once bothering to think about how to interpret his experiences. Science was invented to teach us how to interpret experience, you know, Gabe?

Why don't you study some philosophy of science and get back to us before you repeat your uninteresting points. Usually changing someone's mind requires telling something they don't expect. Try being original, instead of one of the trained monkey woos who can only type out cliches.; 9/10/2009 4:56 PM
Invisible Dragon said...: I'm sorry; its frothing is as the rustle of tumbleweeds to me. But one thing won't let go of my mind... *why* does it spell "negroid" as "negriod"? And why doesn't it stop?; 9/10/2009 5:49 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Cue Gabe's reaction to Invisible Dragon's typo reference instead of my philosophy of science points.

Just so you know, Gabe, if you don't understand why anecdotes are considered the poorest sort of evidence (maybe after faith: the lack of evidence), I really don't see much point in focusing on details.

After all, it's the same collection of fallacies anti-vaxxers use to protect themselves from statistics showing zero link between vaccination and autism. You should know how impenetrable they are.; 9/10/2009 5:53 PM
MWchase said...: There's no way he managed to gather anecdotes about the founding fathers being Viking Supermen, or President Obama being a racist slimeball.

Let's discuss those since, if he can't use anecdotal evidence, he must believe in those things for more convincing reasons, right? [laughtrack].

I don't think he assumes we're all his kind of white... I haven't tried to conceal my ancestry much. Though I wonder... Chase is a surname attached to many significant figures (including the inventor of the greenback). Gabe, you're obsessed with ancestry, and you've annoyed me and dragged me down to the point where I wonder if my ancestors and dead relatives can beat up yours. This is a phenomenally bad idea, but for curiosity's sake, let me know what you've got.; 9/10/2009 11:10 PM
Anonymous said...: "I'm sorry; its frothing is as the rustle of tumbleweeds to me. But one thing won't let go of my mind... *why* does it spell "negroid" as "negriod"? And why doesn't it stop?"

Gabe is really an inbred redneck spacker. Part of a eugenics experiment to breed a "superior" inbred redneck spacker by the elders of the little town of Asswipe in the county of Hicksville. Either that or Gabe is semi literate and badly educated.

Gabe, you should get out more. Go beyond your mom's basement and get out and see the real world beyond your narrow parochial straightjacket. And I mean the real world, not just your fantasy of going to Egypt and South Africa.

JS:); 9/11/2009 2:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Gabe, you should get out more. Go beyond your mom's basement and get out and see the real world beyond your narrow parochial straightjacket.

Wow. the irony, here I lived in Africa, travelling South America,. and I get told by some nimrod that I should "get out more", Irony as it highest I guess.

Sure, tell me, How Should I get out more? Space? I guess thats the last place I haven't gone, are you seriously telling me I need to go to space else I am not travelled enough?

Please inform me.; 9/11/2009 1:05 PM
Bronze Dog said...: You do realize the point of posting that was a suspicion your travel is fictional.

Of course, my whole point is that even if your travels are real, they're moot: Experience does you no good if you can't interpret it properly.

I may have fewer experiences with other cultures, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm asking legitimate questions about your logic that you've been ignoring.; 9/11/2009 1:18 PM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Can't believe this didn't occur to me until now, but I just realized a major flaw in this argumentation.

Travel through foreign countries makes you an expert on the social mores and work skills of the people, regardless of how critically you examine your observations. This is the crux of the argument - pure appeal to authority - that and some wibbly-wobbly bits about rereading history.

So, if it's travel that's at the heart of your expertness, then how are you able to level anything definitive against persons of Asian persuasion without having actually been to Asia? If you're basing your assumptions there on the word of others who have been there, then where is your individual authority?; 9/11/2009 1:21 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Pretty much one of the things I've been trying to drill in his head. As long as he thinks anecdotal evidence will sway us, he'll continue to only frustrate us with repetitious appeals to his authority.

I've been tussling with woos of all stripes, and that's one of the most common problems. They don't realize that the whole of science is about interpreting experiences, and not just sloshing colored liquids between funny-shaped glasses.; 9/11/2009 2:36 PM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Yeah, "I've felt things you don't even think about."

As a "person of faith," I can get where they're coming from, but mine's a faith where, if it interferes with the logical interpretation of the world, it's the faith that most adapt, not the world.; 9/11/2009 4:06 PM
Anonymous said...: And this is a perfect example of it all, Jealousy.

So because you never done anything with your life, sitting infront of a computer playing World of Warcraft or playing Lord opf the Rings with your buddies (I just know you are that kind of guy), I am a Liar...

To even base your opinion of others knowledge on that "he probably lying" is rather tragic, do you not agree? And show strong elements of what Creationist always ACCUSE you of doing, ignoring facts and figures (I am not saying they are right, sweet lord no, they are mental, but they ae indeed correct in their condemnation against you, You are not open enough and do not dare to question your own views as seen here, with me).

YUou continue Strawman of course, saying I claim to know everything etc, even from the start I made it clear it was my experience, which Is very objective.

Plain fact: The negriods I seen all over Africa are Lazy, stupid and, in its core, corrupt.

If you do not LIKE this fact, well, buuhuu, go cry, but this does not change. YES YES, you found ONE HONEST HARDWORKING NEGRO.. Wow, I AM WRONG!!! no wait, I speak in general here, about populations and how the people are, In General, in that society... Gosh, sorry, that one person did not mean anything then as you can find a Lazy white person as well, QED moron.

Now, if you are not to frightened to debate it, Can you explain why United States of America, created by Whites and run by Whites are the greatest nation on Earth whiles all the negro nations are shit?

We now got a NEGRO president, educated in white institutions, not very bright clearly, but politics is about bullshit, not intelligence, so we got a couple of negros in "science", oh yes, usually working on projects by WHITES and even stealing their research in an attempt to get credit for it.

And you got the HIV/AIDS fact, why did they spread it from Africa, no wait, why did it start in Africa? Why was it a negro disease and came to us? Strange, should have started Everywhere i it was not "color", right? I guess the government planted it there, right? To test a new weapon and we used does innocent negros, Evil evil White Man.... Right?

No wait, they are equal to us. Egypt especially, being super grand, Did I mention I was there? Last year I think it was, or end of last year yeah, October I think it was, wow, what a Country, Lots and lots of... .erh.. Coca Cola amongst the ones who could afford it.. And Sand of course, lots of sand, and corruption.

Comeone Bronze, DARE to question your indoctrinated views. DARE to look at yourself critically, dont be so afraid, dont care about these other nimrods, take responsibility.; 9/11/2009 5:28 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Over the character limit, (sigh) again. Part 1:

Gabe, getting desperate:

And this is a perfect example of it all, Jealousy.

So because you never done anything with your life, sitting infront of a computer playing World of Warcraft or playing Lord opf the Rings with your buddies (I just know you are that kind of guy), I am a Liar...

Doggerel #2.

You using it is about as effective as this one troll who stopped by to say that we're just whining about John Edward because we're jealous of his psychic powers.

Though some people have raised some legitimate questions, it doesn't matter one jot to me whether or not you've actually traveled or done any of the things you've claimed. The plural of anecdote is still not data. Correlation is still not causation. And so on.

To even base your opinion of others knowledge on that "he probably lying" is rather tragic, do you not agree? And show strong elements of what Creationist always ACCUSE you of doing, ignoring facts and figures (I am not saying they are right, sweet lord no, they are mental, but they ae indeed correct in their condemnation against you, You are not open enough and do not dare to question your own views as seen here, with me).

YUou continue Strawman of course, saying I claim to know everything etc, even from the start I made it clear it was my experience, which Is very objective.

Your accusation of straw man is a straw man.

The fact that you think your experience is objective is the problem. You have to temper subjective experience with scientific controls in order to make causal connections. You may be able to skip that for low stakes, low noise correlations, but we're talking about noise on the level of civilization. That is my central point, not any of the trivial objections you emphasize. That is the central point you have been evading all this time.

Plain fact: The negriods I seen all over Africa are Lazy, stupid and, in its core, corrupt.

If you do not LIKE this fact, well, buuhuu, go cry, but this does not change. YES YES, you found ONE HONEST HARDWORKING NEGRO.. Wow, I AM WRONG!!! no wait, I speak in general here, about populations and how the people are, In General, in that society... Gosh, sorry, that one person did not mean anything then as you can find a Lazy white person as well, QED moron.

You speak as if this correlation means something. Even if true, you have zero evidence linking this laziness you experienced with genes or this concept of "race." You've also failed to control against confirmation bias and other cognitive biases. The fact that you don't acknowledge them suggests that you think you're immune to them.

Now, if you are not to frightened to debate it, Can you explain why United States of America, created by Whites and run by Whites are the greatest nation on Earth whiles all the negro nations are shit?

Shifting the burden of proof, just like a Creationist. Even if I didn't have an explanation, that would provide zero support for your argument.

Even if I didn't know how the eye evolved, that doesn't mean it was a magic man in the sky.

Even if I didn't know how the US came to power, it doesn't mean it was any magical mystery alleles you refuse to describe.; 9/11/2009 6:05 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Part 2

We now got a NEGRO president, educated in white institutions, not very bright clearly, but politics is about bullshit, not intelligence, so we got a couple of negros in "science", oh yes, usually working on projects by WHITES and even stealing their research in an attempt to get credit for it.

Don't you know ANYTHING at all about science? EVERYTHING in science is stolen from others!

"If I have seen farther, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants."

You're just trying to make a double standard for theft: You seem to think these magical mystery alleles change the nature of science's "build on the work of others" nature.

And you got the HIV/AIDS fact, why did they spread it from Africa, no wait, why did it start in Africa? Why was it a negro disease and came to us? Strange, should have started Everywhere i it was not "color", right? I guess the government planted it there, right? To test a new weapon and we used does innocent negros, Evil evil White Man.... Right?

*rolleyes* Are we going to move into Germ Theory denial, now?

No wait, they are equal to us. Egypt especially, being super grand, Did I mention I was there? Last year I think it was, or end of last year yeah, October I think it was, wow, what a Country, Lots and lots of... .erh.. Coca Cola amongst the ones who could afford it.. And Sand of course, lots of sand, and corruption.

Wow. Once again, Gabe shows us the depth of his illiteracy. Egypt USED to be one of the most advanced civilizations. But then, I guess the magic mystery alleles broke down, instead of say, conquest from outside growing empires, destruction hard-earned ancient knowledge from dark age fundie Christians, more war, and so forth. Because all that socioeconomic crap is mythology, compared to unspecified alleles.

Comeone Bronze, DARE to question your indoctrinated views. DARE to look at yourself critically, dont be so afraid, dont care about these other nimrods, take responsibility.

I am, by asking you serious questions and hoping to get answers. You're just holding everything back, just like all the alties, parapsychologists, ufologists, conspiracy nuts, and so on. Instead of answering my questions or telling me anything unexpected, they ask me to abandon the principles of science, just like you are now, even though you may not realize it.

You really need to clean out your enthymemes.; 9/11/2009 6:06 PM
MWchase said...: Hey hey hey, you can't bring up alleles! Genetics is somehow irrelevant to this discussion.

But if it is... we need another explanation of the cause of race, more convincing than current evidence that a small percentage of human genes control cosmetic attributes. If race isn't genetic, you'd better have some knock-down evidence, or at least a hell of an anecdote. An anecdote wouldn't help your case, but anything that you consider convincing of that has got to be amusing.; 9/11/2009 7:47 PM
Anonymous said...: "Yes, I actually visited THAT one, you got the entire ciy full of Museums, most of them are really shaby, this was suppose to be one of the better ones.. The main I think.

I wanted to see Tutankhamun and most Mummies, Rames II I think was one of the main displays, cant remember.

The place was HORRIBLE, quality , oh around MINUS 5 or so, it was truly a big joke, which was sad as they had some really cool relics very very VERY poorly mainted, man stuff that was 3000 years old had been chipped and screwed up by visitors and such because of poor maintenance."

Strange. The museum was well tidy and ALL the relics were in glass cases the last time I visited.
Could the fact that the museum wasn't a "superior" white American redneck cretinist museum have coluored (forgive the pun) your perceptions?

JS;); 9/12/2009 3:19 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/12/2009 3:33 AM
Anonymous said...: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/
The_Frankincense_Trail_Egypt/

Google it and watch it and weep Gabe. The museum appears on this fascinating documentary.
Also note what Kate Humble says about the Nubian civilization predating even Egypt.

9/12/2009 3:33 AM; 9/12/2009 3:36 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: Fun fact: On my parents' trip to Cairo, they were led to the museums by their highly experienced and independent tour guide. Each museum they went to, there were five or six other places advertised as "museums" nearby. They typically charged lower-than-normal entry fees and my parents asked why they weren't going there.

The guide told them they were basically tourist traps run by scurrilous individuals promoting fake artifacts and selling cheap knockoffs. And they're poorly organized and dirty. The proprietors will claim up and down that they're a division or a wing of the official state-run museums, but they're not, which has done as much as to confuse reporters from major news sources.; 9/12/2009 6:45 AM
Anonymous said...: Hahhaha, Oh, Sorry, ooohhh, that was fun.

Everyone, EVERYONE I was with, Australian, Swede, British and German, pointed out how poorly maintained the National Museum was.

You seem to EXCUSE it, and then claim its not 'true' and its al nice and dandy, maybe you should VISIT IT first, why does Everyone point out how poorly maintained it is? Weird, that is, all that visits it.

Now, maiking a documentary, yeah, funny, wonder if they would close down the Museum and clean it up? I think so, good reputation is important to an economy so in need of tourism, propaganda its called you moron, if you visited the place you would certainly not say its tidy and clean, BECAUSE IT IS NOT!!! Then you either lying to yourself or delusional.

Now yes, Tutam and the guys where indeed in Glass Cases, what does that have to do with poorly maintained? If you visited it you would be ashamed of it, all these relics so poorly taken care of, it is sad.

Anyway, I am not debating someone who never been there and clearly will never been, I HAVE been there and I SEEN how it looks, and its BAD. I HOPE they will clean it up, make it nicer, maybe they will, maybe they already have, who knows, But I doubt it, they will never keep american standard in such a backwards country.

Now, I will respond to Bronze Dogs questions, could you, please, Ask them in 1, 2, 3 Way so I know what you want to know? And oh, Strawmans will not get an answer, say you make up something You claim I said (which you done several times), only serious questions, what do you want to know?

And yes, my travelling have GIVEN ME alot of knowledge, knowledge you will never have because you do not travel, I seen the pyramids, I seen how poolry mainted the entire nation of Egypt is, I seen the nigger nations of Africa and the corruption and crime, I seen the spicks sitting on their asses because thye are 'tired', Whiles white man do the work, I seen it, I experience it, and I done so MANY MANY times confriming it over and over again, you know, like Science? Making it objective fact.; 9/12/2009 1:06 PM
Anonymous said...: "Anyway, I am not debating someone who never been there and clearly will never been, I HAVE been there and I SEEN how it looks, and its BAD. I HOPE they will clean it up, make it nicer, maybe they will, maybe they already have, who knows, But I doubt it, they will never keep american standard in such a backwards country."

Dude face it, you didn't go to the actual museum. You went to the one that only gullible redneck tourists go to. Then you thought you'd seen Tutankhamun himself, when you'd really been fleeced by some rogueish and canny locals. So much for your "superior" white genes!
Either that or
you've never been to Egypt Gabe.; 9/12/2009 1:32 PM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool wrote:

South AFRICA, misspelled and if you read the post you would understand that (speaking of Africa).

You really have trouble reading English don't you? Here is what I said:

Talking about impressive ignorance, when was South America (your words, not mine) ever a prosperous nation run by whites? Since you meant South Africa though...

I knew you were talking about South Africa and even pointed this out (which you ignored or didn't understand), I just wanted to point out you can't even get what you are saying straight - you didn't mispell Africa you wrote an entirely different term with an entirely different meaning and you did it twice, and made yourself look like the ignorant asshat that you are. Mispelling one word once is a typo, using an entirely different term to the one you meant in two seperate posts proves you're a moron without a clue.

Once again, why won't you answer the questions:

How does your bullshit reasoning explain the fact that all those other primarily 'non-white' (as you would claim it) countries still ranked above the USA? Shouldn't countries with even less 'white' people in them than the US do even worse by your pathetic attempt at reasoning?

And how come you ignored the fact that the Scandinavian countries didn't do as well as you claimed either - what is their excuse?

How do you define the term 'white' in reference to people anyway?

Why won't you answer the questions?; 9/12/2009 1:37 PM
Anonymous said...: "And yes, my travelling have GIVEN ME alot of knowledge, knowledge you will never have because you do not travel, I seen the pyramids, I seen how poolry mainted the entire nation of Egypt is, I seen the nigger nations of Africa and the corruption and crime, I seen the spicks sitting on their asses because thye are 'tired', Whiles white man do the work, I seen it, I experience it, and I done so MANY MANY times confriming it over and over again, you know, like Science? Making it objective fact."

Gabe, I do believe that I have you by the 'nads.
When a redneck begins to froth and starts using CAPITALS he is mad. If you really had gone to Egypt then why are you getting so mad?
Is it that I've stripped you of the last fantasy you had that made you feel superior?
Is that why you run from my assertion that you never visited Egypt?

JS;); 9/12/2009 2:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Ja, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you so jealous that other people going to places you never been is lying..

Anyway, whatever you think, I been there, thankyouverymuch, and I will never go back.

I was in Hurghada, Cairo, El Giza (Just outside of Cairo but, technically, its Cairo) and Alexandra, but just skimmed Alexandra, we went around. You want to see my pictures? My AFRICA caralogue proves your claim wrong?

No, why would I even bother, the pictures would be 'fake'.

Anyway, can we come back to topic? These ad hominem are amusing, as thas the only thing you got, but nigger being lazy? You know, Africa? I been there and seen it? Why where all does niggers setting up a seen making me BELIEVE they where lazy? Like 10 countries, ALL of them, the planing must have been HUGE, the U.S government ws behind it? Planned this? They where all actors? Right?

And the same in South America. Here I am, and the McDonalds wstaff are so lazy its not fucking funny, they are USELESS, fastfood yeah, sure.

I am thinking about going to the Amazon (Rainforest), well, I sorta decided, I am jumping on a 30hour buss ride now, shouldn't take 30 hours, but these hardworking guys over here, well, I guess they take it easy. And then a boat ride to a town in the Amazon Basin I think they call it, or something. Was thinking of hiking the forest when I get there, youknow, chill it around, I got internet in the main capitals, but the last 3 or 4 days I doubt it, the boat obviously wont have it, and probably not electricity either. 3 Days on a damn boat, YAY me.... Not....

Anyway, you should come, to see the locals, you know, the hardworking spicks. I INVITE you, we can travel and debate together, or none of the guys here have 'time' for it? Or money maybe? If you do, come down to TRUJILLO or, possible, Iquito and we met up when I get there, we got Terapoto as well, COME, seriously, could be fun. Just travel a bit, see the world, EXPERIENCE it with a 'evil white guy', comeone, seriously, fun? I am going in a couple of days I PLANNED, maybe postponed it for a couple more, so let me know.

You can mail me at gabriel@proinbox.com (I got the worst spamfilter in the world, so dont bother about spamming me, will get barred).

Let me know, if you 'dare' to face people in the real world.; 9/12/2009 2:46 PM
Anonymous said...: "Ja, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you so jealous that other people going to places you never been is lying.."

http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/05/doggerel-2-youre-just-jealous.html

"Anyway, whatever you think, I been there, thankyouverymuch, and I will never go back."

Strange that they cleared up that huge museum just for me, without knowing that I'd pay a visit. Those Egyptian professors must have Kwisatz Haderach genes eh?

"I was in Hurghada, Cairo, El Giza (Just outside of Cairo but, technically, its Cairo) and Alexandra, but just skimmed Alexandra, we went around. You want to see my pictures? My AFRICA caralogue proves your claim wrong?"

I'd love to see your pictures Gabe. I'll give you a few days to ask your friend who actually went to Egypt to send them to you.

"No, why would I even bother, the pictures would be 'fake'."

So what you're basically saying is that we should trust a racist idiot that knows nothing of history or geography or genetics just on his word.
Gabe, you do realise that we're skeptics don't you? We demand hard evidence from bullshitting racist rednecks like yourself and others, because we know that they're so far from the real world that they can't even string together a coherent argument without fucking it up completely by telling porky pies.

JS;); 9/12/2009 3:04 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Okay, Gabe, I'll list some questions.

1. What is "race" in terms of genetics, and how precisely does it affect a person's creative output?

2. Can you briefly describe the philosophy of science?

3. What does it take for a person to become a scientist and discover/invent something new?

4. If Wilbur and Orville Wright were instead raised in a hunter-gatherer tribe, would they still invent the airplane? If not, why not?

5. What does it take for a civilization to prosper? What can cause the downfall of a civilization? Please be as thorough as you can.

That should be a good start.; 9/12/2009 3:44 PM
Anonymous said...: 1. What is "race" in terms of genetics, and how precisely does it affect a person's creative output?

Good question, if we start at the end, the output is clear, White create wonderful things giving to the world making it more advanced, niggers create wars and violence and spread viruses and disease, Thats the hard fact.

Race could be defined in many ways, but Caucasians, WHITE, is one race, what more do you want? GçIf you want genetic details go to a biologist or go to school dude, this is a debate, kind of a strawman, you want me to waste time explaining basic biology to you, why? You should do the hard work yourself and learn, not having others having to explain it it to you.

2. Can you briefly describe the philosophy of science?

Erh.. No¿?

I am not here to do your work. If you lack the basic knowledge of science, well, you are in deep little man, as you clearly cant debate me not understanding the basics, this could explain your lack of understanding what I seen and experienced in the world, you simple do not understand.

3. What does it take for a person to become a scientist and discover/invent something new?

Erh? What?
Once again, this is not seriou, why not ask where rain come from or what makes the pottle go warm. Seriously Dog, waste of time asking these silly question.

Read a couple of papers, travel a bit, and then maybe you will know, I sure do. But I did before I travelled, but it helps to travel, once again. Dont be so afraid of the world.

4. If Wilbur and Orville Wright were instead raised in a hunter-gatherer tribe, would they still invent the airplane? If not, why not?

Erh, because they lacked the equipment? Is this serious?

5. What does it take for a civilization to prosper? What can cause the downfall of a civilization? Please be as thorough as you can.

I cant be detailed now, sitting in a small spick internet cafe, but look at America, WHY did we become the greatest nation on the planet? Because of our skills and intelligence of course, WHY are niggers the laughing stock of the
world, the comlpete opposite perhaps? Low intelligence and understanding? Atleast, thats what I SEEN and EXPERIENCED when BEING THERE, but hard facts, like the real world, does not suit your guidlines right? It needs the complete opposite on a paper, ignoring the real world.

Oh, and no one answered, Amazon? Anyone? Probably going tomorrow, there is a bus 7am, 28 hours or something, then the Boat 3 days, Anyone around, we could met up? Or just computer nerds not daring to go outside here?; 9/12/2009 6:20 PM
Bronze Dog said...: 1. Definition of race: In other words, you won't bother to define what you're making a conclusion about.

Oh, and it's not a matter of basic biology. It's a fine detail about human biology. The last time I checked, the scientific consensus was that it was either trivial or nonexistent.

Of course, as others have pointed out, you seem to think genetics are continuous, rather than discrete. If that were true, evolution would be bunk.

A. Correlation equals causation fallacy.
B. What straw man? I can't read your mind, remember?

2. Failure to describe the philosophy of science:

You do realize that I asked you to describe it BECAUSE everything you've posted has led me to think you know nothing of science, right? I've probably got dozens of blog posts here already covering it.

You were supposed to take this opportunity to convince me that you're capable of speaking the same "language".

3. Evasion about the nature of scientific discovery:

It's crap like this that makes it pointless to talk to you. These are basic sorts of questions that get to the heart of the matter and the heart of your dismissal of alternative explanations. Try going off-script for once in your life.

4. Actually a good answer to the Wright Brothers question:

Was it really that hard to get around to it, when you agree with at least part of my answer?

Not having one of the prerequisites for an invention is exactly the problem. Of course, it's not just material resources, but knowledge resources as well.

Now that you've actually given a reasonable answer, I have to look for another place where we disagree on our routes to different conclusions.

5. On civilizations:

Go more fundamental than that. HOW did Americans get those skills? How did they maintain and improve upon them over entire generations? How did they find the time to devote to these pursuits, instead of, say, struggling just to feed themselves?

---

And nice continuing the traveling red herring. It's moot if you don't know how to think about your experiences, especially if you're deluded enough to think humans are capable of objective anecdotal experience.

Try doing something unexpected, Gabe. I suspect that if you knew anything about the philosophy of science, you'd actually know what it'd take to convince us. Instead, you're just performing to the same script all the other well-traveled quacks, psychics, and so forth.

Experiencing what woos call "the real world" isn't going to change our minds if it falls well within our expectations.; 9/12/2009 6:57 PM
Bronze Dog said...: So, ultra-important key point that I am going to hunker down on:

Gabe, briefly describe the philosophy of science.

If you can't do that, it means you're fundamentally incapable of understanding what it takes to convince us.; 9/12/2009 6:59 PM
Chakat Firepaw said...: Race could be defined in many ways, but Caucasians, WHITE, is one race, what more do you want?

For you to actually define it. Or at least identify which of the many versions of the term you are intending to use.

The range isn't exactly small, running from the peoples of Europe, the Middle East and North Africa at one end; to French, German, Scandinavian and British, but not Roma, Jewish or Celtic, at the other.; 9/13/2009 2:51 AM
Anonymous said...: "Oh, and no one answered, Amazon? Anyone? Probably going tomorrow, there is a bus 7am, 28 hours or something, then the Boat 3 days, Anyone around, we could met up? Or just computer nerds not daring to go outside here?"

None of us here wants to meet such a repulsive person as yourself in the flesh, Gabe.
Is english a second language to you, by the way? Or are you so thick that you consistently mangle your words?; 9/13/2009 5:28 AM
Anonymous said...: "I am not here to do your work. If you lack the basic knowledge of science, well, you are in deep little man, as you clearly cant debate me not understanding the basics, this could explain your lack of understanding what I seen and experienced in the world, you simple do not understand."

Gabe, don't go pretending there that you know anything about biology. From your earlier posts we can tell that you know fuck all about genetics. Not a sausage. You keep retreating back to the same old spiel which is "Me seen world, ugh! You not seen world nyah nyah! Me superior white man!"
However your english is atrocious at times. It is clear that you are badly educated and barely literate.
You aren't even in a debate with Bronze dog. You just keep dancing around avoiding his, and everyone else's questions.
Tell me what an allele is Gabe.
Tell me what punctuated equilibrium is Gabe.
What does the laryngeal nerve have to tell us about how we evolved from fishes?
What are the current scientific ideas on why there are different skin colours, Gabe?
If you answer just one of these questions in an intelligent manner I will be impressed. But you won't. You'll just boringly go on about your trip to BUTTHOLIO and "spicks" and "negriods" and keep showing us all what a dunce you are.

JS;); 9/13/2009 5:41 AM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool:

Still not answering the questions hey? What are you afraid of?

How does your bullshit reasoning explain the fact that all those other primarily 'non-white' (as you would claim it) countries still ranked above the USA? Shouldn't countries with even less 'white' people in them than the US do even worse by your pathetic attempt at reasoning?

And how come you ignored the fact that the Scandinavian countries didn't do as well as you claimed either - what is their excuse?

How do you define the term 'white' in reference to people anyway?

Why won't you answer the questions?

Then, in respone to Bronze Dog you wrote:

Good question, if we start at the end, the output is clear, White create wonderful things giving to the world making it more advanced, niggers create wars and violence and spread viruses and disease, Thats the hard fact.

There is not one hard fact in that passage. English isn't your first langauge is it? What does any of what you wrote in that passage have to do with genetics?

Race could be defined in many ways, but Caucasians, WHITE, is one race, what more do you want?

For you to explain specifically what you mean by 'white', how it is determined by you and how you determine different 'races'. What specifically seperates the races for you?

GçIf you want genetic details go to a biologist or go to school dude, this is a debate, kind of a strawman, you want me to waste time explaining basic biology to you, why?

We know you can't without Googling it, and we know the conclusions you are drawing are not backed up by the biology (hell many geneticists don't even accept there are seperate human races). That's why we want to see you dangling in the wind as you keep avoiding actually getting into the biology. Your entire argument is based on defining races so they are distinct to each other - yet you can't even tell us how you are doing that. That's because you are full of shit and a lying assbag.

You should do the hard work yourself and learn, not having others having to explain it it to you.

You can't explain it and we know this, which is why you type crap like this. You don't have a clue about the biology and that is why you have not once tried to answer a biology question with biological evidence.

You don't understand the biology, that's why you can't answer any questions about it. All your avoidance techniques are obvious to everyone but you. You are the equivalent of the child in the playground who claims to have a million pounds, and when someone asks to see it replies "I don't want to show you, but I do have it."

You're arguments are no better than an 8 year olds.; 9/13/2009 11:00 AM
Bronze Dog said...: They're also structured identically to a lot of other types of woos. There are a lot of quacks who will cite "clinical experience" for some magical treatment with no mechanism for action. Said treatment never has any real studies supporting it, and often many against.

Speaking of mechanisms of action, Gabe avoided explaining how race affects creative output. How does "whiteness" encourage scientific discovery?

But anyway, Gabe can't even comprehend us because he's the sort who goes around blindly trusting what his perception tells him, convinced he has zero biases to color them. In the unlikely event he develops even a marginal understanding of the philosophy of science, then he'll stop being a cookie-cutter woo.; 9/13/2009 3:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Do you have different cat races? Just curious here? Or they are 'different' cants, 'Race' do not exist?

Also, it is interesting that you say that experience nd knowledge is not valid, mine is not because you do not agree, indeed amazing.

Lets say you go to a country and see that the people are, in general, hardworking and intelligent, they show this by amazing progress like space travel and wealth.

You then claim, no, its not true, because you do not 'like it', a weird ending, do you not think?

And You do not love your Race?

Do you love your Country? Whats the difference? You hate your country? Or your 'country' does not exist, just like 'race' does not exist? Please explain here.; 9/13/2009 7:41 PM
MWchase said...: My experience is that I have black TAs and a black advisor.

Anyway, our problem is that you're saying that a correlation (supported by anecdotes and generalities) implies a causation.

Would you say that anecdotes about women being irrational or left-handed people being careless (ca 150 years ago) are true, simply because whoever said them said they had seen "a lot" of women/left-handers?

Anyway, 'race' is a very malleable concept. You've got black and white, and presumably the attendant colors. Were the people of the past wrong to divide things more finely, so that there were differences between, say, Irishmen, Germans, Italians, etc?

(Just out of curiosity, were the Blood Quantum and One Drop classifications simultaneously valid?)

One final thing: this wasn't directed at me, but you mentioned "your Race". I'm of mixed ancestry, as I said. How would I go from that to a single, all-encompassing word, hopefully ending in "-oid" or "-iod"? Is it a split-the-difference thing, so that I have to say two words at once, or something based on the specifics of my genealogy?; 9/13/2009 8:19 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Wow, Gabe, you really have no idea what's going on here?

It's your methods that are invalid. The correlation equals causation fallacy, which has been mentioned quite often.

I don't like the conclusion that psychic powers don't exist (Who wouldn't want to be able to move stuff with their minds?), but that doesn't change the fact that parapsychologists are stuck with only crappy, uncontrolled, unverifiable anecdotes and a bunch of bad statistical slight of hand.

Race is either very trivial or nonexistent in humans. The human gene pool is a lot more shallow than you think. House pets actually do have the genetic diversity to produce identifiable breeds. Dogs, for example, are a "ring species" IIRC, because some breeds of dogs can't have children with certain other breeds. Say, for example, between toy breeds and big working breeds. But they could still mix genes if you put them through some generations of middle-sized dogs.

Human race, I imagine, is along the lines of the difference between certain colors of tabby cats. There just isn't anything really big enough to latch onto.

Except maybe blood groups, but I doubt you'd go for that.; 9/13/2009 9:25 PM
Anonymous said...: As I've written before, Gabe's entire spiel about race comes from his need to be identified as superior. A surefire indicator that he thinks himself a lesser mortal and needs the spurious rationale of "superior race" as a crutch for his ego.
When called out on his belief he has the fall back position of thinking that no one else but himself has travelled and this makes him feel superior.
If he really has travelled to other countries it certainly hasn't broadened his mind. In fact he sounds very much like a parochial hick that hasn't gone anywhere.
It is patently obvious that he lacks the knowledge and mental acuity to debate anything either.
I think he'll continue to cling to his spurious beliefs like a shipwreck victim clings to some flotsam during a storm.; 9/14/2009 3:02 AM
Dweller in Darkness said...: "Do you have different cat races? Just curious here? Or they are 'different' cants, 'Race' do not exist?"
No, we don't have different cat races. That's not the term we use. We have different breeds developed from multiple species of wild cat and we have different species of wild cat.

We use these terms - "breed" and "species" because they mean specific things and identify domestic cats as being creatures that are bred, that have been carefully controlled, catalogued and bred for specific traits. I've heard the comparison of the human "races" to the breeds of cats and dogs before, but there's really no comparison, not if you know even the least thing about the differences between animal breeding programs and human reproduction.; 9/14/2009 10:00 AM
Anonymous said...: I wanted to share an experience with you guys,
even if reality and such are 'not real' and not as
valid as wikipedia and Wolf of Warcraft is for you
guys. I guess it is hope in me that you will, finally,
accept reality and the real world out there, eventually.

I was in Venezuela a while back and I met this
white American teacher trying to educate the locals,
something which was very hard according to
the Teacher (lets call him Eric). Eric told me that
it was like educating cavemen, they where very
behind mentally and it was really hard for them to
understand even basic concepts, some of his
students did, finally, learn english so they could
communicate, but most of what came out was
what you would expect from Native Americans
or Spicks in the U.S, so he finally moved on.

I met him when he was on his way down to Brazil
in the hope to be able to educate some of the
locals so they understand the world and most importantly
get a chance to communicate with the world speaking
english instead of the backwards language they spoke,
normally it wasn't even an official language but more
of the cavemen style of 'uh uh' and so forth, these
people where backwards but he wanted to make the
best of it spreading american knowledge and
understanding in the Hope that in a couple of hundred
years they would be similar to us in understanding.

Now of course, any experience of the real world he had
is not valid (according to you) and is mere propaganda
or made up whatever, its not true using your logic, but
bare with me even if my and his reality is not valid. (Only
your perceptio is 'real' if I remember correctly, all others
are false).

He told me a story about a nigger he met in the jungles
of Venezuela who claimed to be an American. Most
likely he was on social welfare or drug smuggler as it
was clear he could never afford being there on normal
means (that is if we accept him to be an 'American').

Normally I stay away from none-White 'Americans' when
in South America as most of the niggers are drug smugglers
and certainly not american, but Eric was suppose to met
up with him later and asked me to go with him for security
as it was very likely this nigger wanted to rob him or trick
him somehow. So I tagged along just to keep my fellow
american friends back. We arrived at a lodge between,
well, to be honest, I dont know, could have been Brazil,
Venezuela, Colombia, I just dont know, The immigrations
are sorta muddled there but according to stamps I was
indeed in Brazil, but take that with a grain of salt. we travelled by
river so I guess it should be easy to find out but we always
dealt with American Dollar (being the worlds currency, this
filthy white mans greenback, how weird isn't it?) so we never had
to bother about the worthless currency these countries used,
and the language they spoke where more jibberish then anything.

Anyway, at the lodge we stayed for a night and suppose to wait
for his 'american' nigger as he was suppose to take Eric on a
expedition (and me to now it seemed) as he had some 'friends'
there giving him a good deal (according to the nigger guy). So
days go by but he doesn't come, we check with the clerk and
have a look around but no ones heard of him or know who he could
be, finally we find out that there's been a drug bust further down
the river and our 'American' negro got busted and his 'american
papers' where, surprise surprise, False. He probably planned
to take whatever Eric had and cut his throat but it did learn the
guy a valuable lesson, keep to your own race for safety, spicks
and negriods and dangerous if you are White as they want to
have everything you accomplished without doing any of the work
themselves.

->; 9/14/2009 10:32 AM
Anonymous said...: I said bye to 'Eric' a couple of days later and continued down to Brasilia,
the capital of Brazil.

Anyway, I know I know, all are not the same, this is just one
incident that happened, it means nothing etc etc. Indeed, its to
bad I seen this kind of 'one time only' incidents over and over
again, and it reminds me of your complaints of Africa, here I
see, experience and Live the actions of people in Africa, but you
decide its not true, its only 'one time event', even when it is
a normal occurence like the sun goes up, it is just part of the
culture, but you do not want to accept it, you sit there infront
of your computer denying the REAL WORLD, that, my friend,
is scary shit.; 9/14/2009 10:32 AM
djfav said...: Okay, I'm just going to say one more thing. It should be quite clear by now that Gabe has understood nothing. And the frequency of racial slurs has increased. It's time for the banhammer to come down.

Simply disgusting.; 9/14/2009 10:54 AM
MWchase said...: We're not saying that bad things don't happen, we're saying that your stories are colored by your perceptions, sometimes blatantly so. Why do you think you're qualified to assess the qualities of a language that you don't know?

Anyway, what should we expect from "spicks"? Grandiose speculation about alternative forms of inheritance inspired by your minuscule understanding of genetics, perhaps? (For those who can't understand what I say when tired, the idea is that, instead of discrete alleles, traits would be encoded in wave form and daughter traits would arise from interference.); 9/14/2009 12:06 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Gabriel, you still show no sign of understanding fundamental concepts we're trying to communicate.

This isn't about us being sheltered or you being worldly. This is about the interpretation of experiences. Homebodies like me, thanks to carefully paying attention to top scientists (many of which you'd probably call "white"), tell me how they got to be scientists and how they got to understand their field.

You're asking me to ignore everything they had to teach me about the basics of science. I may not have a huge variety of experiences, but I do know a thing or two about how people can deceive themselves. That's why I blog about skepticism. Your pattern of argumentation falls into the exact same lines as nearly every other form of woo I can think of.

You seem to think that you don't have to answer to your correlation equals causation logical fallacy. You seem to think you're different from your fellow mortals in that you think you can be an objective observer of noisy data. I might trust you to be objective when you read an instrument's measurements or count a well-defined thing. For anything less objective than that, you fall into the same category as everyone else: You have to use science.

You are not special. Your perceptive abilities are not above question. You are not the first person to try to get us to accept something utterly against scientific consensus and without evidence by waving your ego around.

No matter how entertaining it is for you to think so, you're not competing against anything as silly as Wikipedia. You're competing against the consensus of the many biologists who accept the results of experiments such as the Human Genome Project. You're competing against the consensus of historians, economists, sociologists, and political scientists who can list many intuitive, parsimonious, and non-magical explanations for the inequalities of the world.

They have statistical analysis of genes, historical documents, theories that can explain everything. They told me about the history and philosophy of science, and what it takes for discovery to even be possible. They've given me much to think about in terms of the logistics necessary to maintain a stable environment where education is possible.

All you have is a collection of anecdotes, an undefined word, and handwaving to describe how this vague concept actually does anything.

Homeopaths expect me to throw aside all the negative studies of their quackery, everything we know about chemistry and human biology because they have collections of anecdotes, undefined "miasmas" and "quantum wave forms" in water, and no plausible mechanism for how they heal people.

Psychics expect me to throw aside all the failed experiments as well as everything I know about mentalism and stage magic because they have a collection of anecdotes, undefined "psychic" powers, and no mechanism to tell us how those powers allegedly work.

9/11 Twoofers expect me to throw aside the consensus of demolitions experts and civil engineers and everything I know about logistics because they have a handful of [often quote mined] eyewitnesses who said they heard explosions, undefined "Illuminati" members who can somehow order thousands of people to keep quiet, and no mechanism to explain how anyone could pull off such a Rube Goldbergian conspiracy.

Creationists expect me to throw away everything I know about biology, hundreds of thousands of studies of biology, astronomy, cosmology, and chemistry because they have a few millenia-old anecdotes, undefined "gods" and "divine powers", and no mechanism for them to do anything.

Are you seeing a pattern, yet, Gabe?

Define race. Tell me how a person's race causes their "superiority" or "inferiority."; 9/14/2009 1:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Dog Dog Dog.

Explain why the most technologically advanced nation, the awe of the world and Light of nations, United States of America, is the best, whiles Negro nations are at the bottom...

Start by EXPLAINING why THIS is, and how it is just a "mere coincidence" that We are white, whiles you got Negros anfd Spicks raping and murdering spreading disease and destroy our wonderful nation. EXPLAIN THAT instead.; 9/14/2009 1:26 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Shifting the burden of proof and I expect an inevitable followup argument from ignorance/lack of imagination. Funny that you're willing to go through this bit of humiliation yet again. It shows just how bankrupt your hypothesis is.

---

Seen in millions of threads, and constructed in the same manner:

Creationist: "Well, explain how life started!"

Scientist: "We've got multiple possible hypotheses of abiogenesis, each consisting of plausible mechanisms that obey the laws of chemistry, but we don't know with absolute detail, yet."

Creationist: "You don't know, therefore a magic man in the sky did it with unknowable mechanisms!"

---

Here's the point, Gabe: Even if I had absolutely no idea how it happened, you've presented no good evidence to pin it down to race, just like the Creationist has no good evidence to pin it down to an undefined magic man.

All you've got is a correlation equals causation fallacy that comes from subjective personal experience. Science doesn't have much use for those.

It's funny that you praise all the science "whites" produce, but you disagree with their results on this one topic as well as refuse to use science to investigate your own hypothesis.

For once in your internet life, try going off the woo script. Do something I don't expect.; 9/14/2009 1:43 PM
MWchase said...: If you want a tentative explanation (which I will give because I can)...

Small populations do not support competition or innovation. Monolithic cultures do not support innovation. Europe is more divided by landscape, so it's harder for countries to expand, since it's easier to defend one side than to attack from the other. Nevertheless, knowledge circulated, and nations competed.

As a result, one factor in the advancement of 'whites' is that the same location that supported rapid innovation through circulation ('theft') of ideas and competition between nations, happened to be located far enough from the equator that melanin levels suitable in Africa would have given people rickets.

That do it for you? There are probably other factors, like, say... coal. But Jared Diamond seemed to know what he was talking about when he said the stuff that I just paraphrased.

In other words... "white people are superior" because... plate tectonics?; 9/14/2009 1:47 PM
Anonymous said...: You had no answer, how sweet.

If it looks chicken, smells like a chicken and acts like a chicken.. most likely......... its a Duck. According to you.; 9/14/2009 2:33 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Oh, and here's some encouragement from a Viking, Gabe:

"Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible
propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”
-Thomas Jefferson

If we don't know what your "race" hypothesis is, we can't exactly argue against it. All you have to do is state your case and we'll be convinced. We currently subscribe to the null hypothesis of "race (whatever that is) is negligible." That's why all this shifting of the burden of proof, attempts at argument from ignorance, and repetition of anecdotes look an awful lot like stalling.

---

And hello projection and reading comprehension failure with your latest post.

It doesn't matter in the slightest if we don't know. "We don't know" does not in any way whatsoever help your case. You can't put a lack of knowledge into an evidence locker.

Definitely still stuck on the Creationist script. "You don't know, therefore I know with Absolute Certainty, with no need for good evidence or even a distinct idea that a magic man in the sky did it."

Why are you so scared to present your case? You only need to defeat the null hypothesis.; 9/14/2009 2:38 PM
Bronze Dog said...: How about this? I'll be charitable for the sake of argument: For the time being, let's say I don't know anything at all about the prosperity of the US or the destitution of civil-war-torn African nations. Let's say I don't know why.

How does that advance your conclusion one jot?; 9/14/2009 2:41 PM
Chakat Firepaw said...: Gabe, we are still waiting for you to actually define "white".

If you can't give an analytical answer, how about trying an empirical one? Before the age of exploration, where did whites live? Be specific, (i.e. don't say Europe unless you want to count everyone from Gibraltar to the Urals and from the North Atlantic to the Bosporus), and also note if there are any exceptions[1].

Without a definition of white, any claims that whites are superior are meaningless. The claims would be no better than claims that glorphs were superior.

Given some of your comments, and your descriptions of your travels and activities, I suspect that your definition of white is "Japhetic".

[1] For example, If I had to come up with a definition for black, I would include a note that the peoples known as African Pygmies are not black. Depending on how I wrote the definition, I might need a similar note about the Khoisan.; 9/14/2009 3:31 PM
Dark Jaguar said...: There's not much to say that hasn't already been said. I just thought I'd restate a few things.

Firstly, once again Gabe you are making blind judgements about us, but sadly have decided to make them rather quantitative. I've heard enough comments to make it clear that most people here, BD included, don't play World of Warcraft (or MMOs in general for that matter). It wasn't enough that you simply guessed it, you stated it as though you knew it as a fact. This is an example of the very problem we are trying to explain to you. Your limited exposure is not enough to justify your conclusions in BOTH cases, and in both cases you're simply wrong on all counts. You had no reason at all to assume we DID play it. BD never once announced it. You just "knew" it, as you put it. How exactly? Is it the same way you "knew" that those african and egyption people were lazy?

This sort of example of your ability to judge people and exactly what you settle for as evidence is EXACTLY why we can't trust your judgement alone! Further, NEITHER SHOULD YOU! We are suggesting that you should consider a complete revamp of your entire system of judgement. You may find it offensive that us "wikipedia worshipping wow addicts" would suggest such a thing, but the very fact that you reached such a conclusion with no basis for it that's flat out wrong in every detail is exactly why we are suggesting it.

More to the point, we've heard your question. We KNOW what you are asking us. You are asking us to explain WHY such and such culture is so far behind America. That's been the problem from the beginning that you fail to understand. You are assuming your own conclusion. There's a bunch of assumptions in your own question you fail to even realize.

The most obvious one is that you assume that race is responsible, and that it's the chief thing "competing" there. You have to DEFEND this assumption. WHY do you think that's the SOLE explanation? Secondly, you assume that ALL cultures that are backwards are predomanitely one of your "lesser" races. This is demonstrably not true, and historically untrue as well. There have been numerous explanations already so I won't belabor the point here.

I'll only add that your latest bit of sarcasm seems to be that apparently one or two succesful cultures, or individuals, that prove themselves intelligent, don't discount your basic statement that they are inferior.

No, they EXACTLY discount it. That's EXACTLY what we should expect to find if it was not true, and it IS what we find. You reduce it to a "general rule", but how do you explain why it's NOT an absolute judgement? Why do the exceptions even exist, and in such large numbers? And we're talking historically, BEFORE they would have a "chance" to "steal" ideas from "the white man". The fact that there ARE exceptions, which you acknowledge, should be bringing up red flags, not sarcasm. Do you honestly believe that when you claim an entire race is "inferior" that pointing out examples to the contrary is NOT a valid way to prove that wrong?

Let me put it another way. State directly what your hypothesis is. BD and others have been trying to get you to do this for the last few posts, and you're basically playing the haughty "it's just plain obvious" game to worm around it. I think I'll add a question to that list. Please explain EXACTLY what you would expect to find if your idea was true. Secondly, and more importantly, explain what you would expect NOT to find if your idea was true. We need two things, a way to verify THAT your idea is in any way true, and a way to FALSIFY it in the even it is not true. If you can't imagine, even hypothetically, how the world would have to operate for your idea to be false, then your idea can't, even hypothetically, EVER be wrong, and it becomes meaningless, like stating that "the universe is love" (or hate in your case).; 9/14/2009 11:57 PM
Anonymous said...: "It's funny that you praise all the science "whites" produce, but you disagree with their results on this one topic as well as refuse to use science to investigate your own hypothesis."

Exactly. Gabe doesn't understand science and prefers his own idiosyncratic stupidity to the empirical method.; 9/15/2009 3:01 AM
Anonymous said...: "you sit there infront
of your computer denying the REAL WORLD, that, my friend,
is scary shit."

I agree with what you say here Gabe. Well most of it. You sit there in your mom's basement making up shit to show your warped view of the world is some kind of feverish reality. Its not scary shit. Its just shit.
You are stuck in a psychological rut.
Come on Gabe, admit that you can't explain what "white superiority" is. You can't even dmonstrate that you are "superior". In fact you come across as a retarded racist.
If you clearly were superior you'd have answered our questions by now with stunningly precise arguments and amazingly lucid words.
You haven't, so clearly you ain't superior. You're clearly inferior when it comes to getting your ideas across using debate.
I put it to you Gabe that you are just a sad unintelligent little man with an inferiority complex.
That is why you have to fantasize that you are part of some "race" of superbeings. Perhaps you will start telling us how you are descended from Kryptonians or Atlanteans next. And you think that you're in the real world. Ha!

JS;); 9/15/2009 3:24 AM
Jimmy Blue said...: Racist tool:

Still no answers, how sweet.

How does your bullshit reasoning explain the fact that all those other primarily 'non-white' (as you would claim it) countries still ranked above the USA? Shouldn't countries with even less 'white' people in them than the US do even worse by your pathetic attempt at reasoning?

And how come you ignored the fact that the Scandinavian countries didn't do as well as you claimed either - what is their excuse?

How do you define the term 'white' in reference to people anyway?

One more:

How do you define 'race'?

Why won't you answer the questions? What are you afraid of?; 9/15/2009 11:30 AM
Anonymous said...: If you question reality, you will always be wrong. You can not defeat reality with semantics.

You sit there, infront of your computer, never seen the world, never experienced anything and clearly will never, as that
does not 'interest you', and claim reality is in the writings you download and all the people that live in the Real World is wrong.

Why do you not tell that to the people in Africa? Why do you not go there, stand in the mist of violence, rape and murder and
tell them, "Eh, guys.. eh... gu... your not suppose to kill.... eachother.. You are like whites, civilized... Equal, as is equal,
no no, please dont..... Do.. dont do that, dont cut his thro....."

Because reality mr Dog, works a bit different, reality functions without your skewed and twisted views indoctrinated by your school
teachers or "Black Month" educationl class, Reality do not care about your biased opinions
and what you 'should' believe.

Yes, of course, my experiences are wrong, because they do not fit with your none-experiences, your 'world' that someone told you or you read on the internet, and when I see 1000 acting like lazy bums out of 1100, then I am wrong, because thats not so, when I visit a nation that have plenitude of violence
and crime, people that can not feed themselves, read or write and stupid as a doornail, they are equal to White Man, that builds spaceships and computers, When the majority of Reality shows you that they are incompetent, they are
not, because You Dog, have decided it is not so.

You learn that Whites are EQUAL to Blacks and whatever facts are shown, you need to remember that, you need to remember that when a negro robs you, raps your girlfriend and murders your family, he is just like you, even if he cant read or write or speak english properly. Thats what your school teacher taught you, and seem to be a main aim in school today, downgrade White man, make him equal to the lower because that is politically correct.

Did you believe everything your teacher told you? I know very well how anti-white the scools have become, you should now be ashamed of being a White, you should feel no pride in what you have done and all the wonderful things your race
is responsible for, you should duck down, look into the floor and be quite, the negro next to you, the guy cheating on the test last week, you know? Is equal to you, he who has a family living in poverty, comes to school with dirty clothes, most of his family is probably criminals, half of them behind bars, they are equal to you, just like in Communism, Everyone is Equal, Everyone is equally worth, even if that annoying thing we call Reality says the complete opposite.

Do you dare to question your paradigm? Do you dare to question your indoctrination? Or is it rooted to deep now? That the White Race, the creators of everything you use today (either directly or indirectly) is something to be ashamed of, and the complete opposite, the people spreading disease and death, destruction and
chaos, are just like you? Think Dog, think.

->; 9/15/2009 12:15 PM
Anonymous said...: ->

Politically, you should be worried, Today we now have a negro as our Head of State. Someone that no doubt follows the negro policies. Imagine if he gets one of his 'National Healthcare plans' to go through, a way for him to spread HIV to the whites of America, he can force you to be condemned with HIV, maybe it has not sunk in
yet, maybe it will if that happens, when you know your expiration date, then you think 'Oh, maybe I should have listen to Gabe'.

Of course, you live in a delusional world, you think reality is not real, whatever is written on a paper that agrees with your stance, that is real, the world out there, where people work, go for lunch, walking over the road, avoiding getting robbed, thats not real, just like the world of 'Matrix', you believe that to be a fictional
world by your own admission, its not 'true', its a mere illusion based on your own subjective opinion, real actions, real world, that happens on a piece of paper, as long as it agrees with you, that is.

Dare to question your Paradigm dear Dog, don't be afraid of subjugation, Go against the stream, dont be like the sheep reading your blog, agreeing with anything you are told. Your blog readers are a perfect example, blind sheep,
know nothing, have no opinions, they agree with you blindly
and nod, 'Yes Dog, you are right, other person is wrong', they are so afraid of questioning, and most of them cant because of lack of knowledge, they live in a isolated
little world where, in this blog, you are God, you are the one and only, and anyone who questions you, are wrong, by default, does not matter if you claim the world to be
flat or negros to be equal to White man, you are always right in their world, and I guess thats why you have this blog, confirmation for yourself, so you feel better,
anything questions you gets banned or ridiculed, or insulted in my case, acting like immature children, I can mention several
who flat out insulted me instead of questioning me, why? Because they have nothing else, they know nothing, what can they say? So they insult.

Try to question Dog, try. Try to remember, whatever you been indoctrinated to believe, that Everyone is equal, but some are more equal then others.

That Is Reality, Dog. Welcome to it.; 9/15/2009 12:16 PM
Anonymous said...: I've been sick now for a couple of days and ironically had to postpones my trip. Well, the busses to everyday and you do not need to buy a ticket anytime before, so it does not matter, no planning needed.

I seriously invite you, I know it is scary, going out of your cloet, leave your house or own a passport, most of you never been anywhere, but come with me, that is, Join me, and see what you debating for once in your life.

You can met up with me in Either Tarapoto, Urimagaus (spelled with a Y Locally) or Iquitos.

It would be fun to met up at Urimagaus as its a 3 day boat ride from there, the company would be good not to go insane :)

I, in completele contrast to you, would show love and compassion for your narrow and ignorant views, I show no hate, I welcome you. Come with me or join me if you, by happenstance are around (very unlikely of course, but maybe someone reading not as limited in funds, intellect and bravery of going SOMEWHERE in your live), let me know, mail me at gabriel@proinbox.com.

I am the Aryan, Blond, Blue eyed and attractive guy in Tarapoto, Urimagaus or Iquitos, I doubt there are many of us around there. Greet me if you see me.

Heil; 9/15/2009 1:29 PM
djfav said...: Heil?

Okay, I called it. Gabe really is a fucking Nazi.; 9/15/2009 1:36 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Wow, Gabe's desperate. I offer to tie both paws behind my back and say "I don't know" to the question about why the US is prosperous and Africa isn't.

So Gabe, instead of going chicken shit and spouting off scripted rants about the alleged inherent wrongness of the scientific method used by those white scientist you pretend to worship, how about you demonstrate that you can actually defeat "I don't know" in an argument. Ignore all the hypotheses we've had for the US's prosperity and Africa's instability. Show me that "race" is a useful, plausible explanation.

Of course, to do that, you'll have to define what you're talking about.; 9/15/2009 3:19 PM
Bronze Dog said...: Here's something to pay attention to, Gabe.

Of course, without a good definition of "race", it might as well be supernatural.; 9/15/2009 4:03 PM
Bronze Dog said...: More Qualia Soup.; 9/15/2009 5:03 PM
Greg Laden said...: Racist troll, you are a RACIST and a TROLL and nothing you've said here is even slightly original, and every shingle thing you've said is WRONG TEN TIMES OVER!!!!; 9/15/2009 7:52 PM
Bronze Dog said...: As suggested by my repeated efforts to get Gabe to think about what science means, the correct term is "fractal wrongness": He's wrong at every level of resolution.

Instead of bothering to listen to any of the ideas presented by the "superior white" scientists who taught me everything I know about the philosophy of science and the results of the human genome project, about all Gabe can do is hint at an appeal to other ways of knowing. Just substitute any other topic for "race" and Gabe sounds exactly like the woo formula.; 9/15/2009 7:59 PM
Chakat Firepaw said...: We're still waiting Gabe:

Exactly what do you mean when you say white?

It's not exactly a hard question to answer. All you have to do is to identify where whites lived in the 15th century, and what people living in those areas were not white.

A second question:

By Aryan, do you mean to refer to Indo-European, the long discredited theories of de Gobineau, Kossinna et.al., or the utter tripe from the charlatan Helena Blavatsky?; 9/16/2009 1:51 AM
Anonymous said...: "I've been sick now for a couple of days.."

You've been sick for a lot longer.You also appear to suffer from paranoia to go with your delusions of genetic superiority.; 9/16/2009 2:46 AM
Anonymous said...: "That Is Reality, Dog. Welcome to it."
Now thats ironic.
The fact that you ascribe a huge boatload of complex events into a stupidly simplistic "white superiority" fantasy shows how little you know about reality.
The fact that you use the term "heil" shows that you think yourself a Nazi. And those Nazis were the biggest losers in history (not that you'd know any history you ignoramus). They got their asses handed to'em on a plate,and then some. Anyone who thinks they were ubermenschen is as sad and a bigger loser than they were. Gabe you wouldn't know what reality was if it rogered you with a baseball bat.
JS;); 9/16/2009 2:56 AM
MWchase said...: He means white, blond hair, and blue eyes. Which makes me wonder what he thinks the odds are of two people with, say, brown hair and hazel eyes (because I'm not sure I believe the simplified dominance relationships for eye color that they teach us in class) having a child with blond hair and blue eyes...

Now the thing is, that is a probabilistic question and answer, and I've gotten the impression that he thinks that isn't the case.; 9/16/2009 7:07 AM
Dunc said...: I know it's pointless, but I wonder what our resident moron thinks of Brazil, the case of triracial white people... Specifically, I wonder what he makes of this:

"What the data from Brazil suggest are that:

1) There is a correlation between phenotype (racial self-classification) and ancestry.

2) But that correlation is modest at best, and a significant proportion of the Brazilian population which is white has more black ancestry than a significant proportion of the Brazilian population which is black."

[My emphasis]; 9/16/2009 8:13 AM
MWchase said...: That post links to another that explains what I and others have been trying to say, in a very clear fashion. It uses an example that should make Gabe... well, his reaction might amuse us.

Link. Read that, Gabe. Or at least look at the picture at the top of the post.; 9/16/2009 8:26 AM
Chakat Firepaw said...: Oh, I know exactly what he means. Pretty much every modern usage of Aryan traces back to one source.

I'm more interested in seeing if he knows where his usage comes from.; 9/16/2009 8:28 AM
Bronze Dog said...: Something Gabe will miss in that link of MW's: "What is the take home message here? Genetics is discrete, and variation is preserved, genetics is not blending!!!"

I think the extra exclamation points are completely unnecessary, but it's funny that Gabriel's arguments about race require that we deny all the so-called "white" science since Mendel and Darwin.; 9/16/2009 8:42 AM
Anonymous said...: “dont be like the sheep reading your blog, agreeing with anything you are told. Your blog readers are a perfect example, blind sheep,
know nothing, have no opinions, they agree with you blindly”

Baaaaaaaa! These "sheep" have been handing you your ass on a plate for quite some time "superior" boy.

“anything questions you gets banned or ridiculed, or insulted in my case, acting like immature children, I can mention several
who flat out insulted me instead of questioning me, why? Because they have nothing else, they know nothing, what can they say? So they insult.”

We have been questioning you. And you've just ignored our questions due to the fact that you're an ill educated ignoramus.
You are so stupid that you don't seem to realise that you are the one that knows fuck all. By the way learn some english.
I insult folk like you because you are an insult to anyone with more than one brain cell.

“I, in completele contrast to you, would show love and compassion for your narrow and ignorant views, I show no hate,”

My irony meter exploded like a mini nuke ages ago, so I just have to point out that you are so dim that you can't even see the incredible irony of calling anyone else's views "narrow and ignorant".

“Today we now have a negro as our Head of State. Someone that no doubt follows the negro policies. Imagine if he gets one of his 'National Healthcare plans' to go through, a way for him to spread HIV to the whites of America, he can force you to be condemned with HIV..."

This is a clear example of someone with a racist, narrow, ignorant and paranoidly demented mind. Gabe you need psychiatric help.

JS;); 9/16/2009 1:47 PM

Saturday, September 05, 2009

Feedin' Pen for the Troll

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