Friday, September 18, 2009

Gabe's Contradictions

Thanks to a little bit of medication change, I had a good night sleep instead of a bout of insomnia. So I'm in a good mood again for continuing with Gabriel, our current troll. I thought I'd spell out some stuff that Gabe has a lot of explaining to do about, especially since he seems rather tight-lipped about explaining what exactly he's arguing.

The nature of "race":
1. He mocked for allegedly being scared to talk about race.
2. When we asked for genetic data, he tended to ignore it, and at least once said that genetics were irrelevant. (What is race, then, metaphysical?)
3. People start pointing out his use of "dilution" in reference to race, suggesting it is a continuous phenomenon, rather than a discrete one like genes. (So, is he arguing that the modern synthesis of evolution, the foundation of biology, is wrong?)
4. We ask for a definition of race and how it encourages or discourages stable societies and scientific progress. Gabe pretends it's obvious.

The nature of science:
1. Gabe praises the "white race" for various breakthroughs in science and technology.
2. We use the philosophy of science (used by those "white" scientists Gabe speaks highly of) to dismiss the validity of anecdotal experience, and logic to point out that correlation does not equal causation.
3. Gabe responds to these logical conundrums with the standard anti-science diatribe and an appeal to other ways of knowing. He also tosses in various insults, suggesting that we're nothing but basement-dwelling WoW players. As if that validates his use of logical fallacies.

Memes:
1. I point out that humans, with their great brain plasticity, must learn to survive and thrive. That's why we build civilizations, instead of hunting and gathering like less intelligent omnivores tend to do. I point out that science is a "build on the work of others" enterprise: As a result, learning something new with science typically requires access to the best knowledge (memes) already present. I also point out that someone scrounging around for food doesn't have the time or energy to devote himself to education.
2. Gabe dismisses "non-whites" building on the work of "whites" as "stealing." He dismisses memes as "magic."

Responsibility:
1. Gabe tries to claim that people are responsible for their culture.
2. I point out that each person has no control over the cultural memes in other people's heads at the time of birth, and that as an adult, a person can't necessarily choose memes he hasn't been exposed to.
3. Gabe argues ???.

Similarity to other woos:
1. I point out that Gabe's arguments are structured in a nearly identical manner to all sorts of quacks, fraudulent psychics, newage (rhymes with sewage) hippies, religious nuts, etcetera.
2. Gabe just seems to ignore the analogy.

18 comments:

Jacqueline said...

Gabe is sounding increasingly confused now. His "superior" white Nazi wankfest fantasy has crumbled so much that he has cowarded out of answering everyones' questions.
He kind of reminds me of that dork Adolf Hitler. At the first sign of defeat he chickens out. Maybe he has shot himself in shame like his revered loser fuhrer.



JS;)

Anonymous said...

Wow you are ignorant.

So apparently, because you have some grudge against Adolf Hitler and can not see past your biased and skewed views, you decided he was a 'loser'.

Wow, saying that about am amazing Speaker and strategian, You DO know that Germany was considered the most Advanced nation on the planet before he started the war in europe?

The only 'miss' he truly did was to attack Russia, which as you have no knowledge of history, was a bad move, but also a move he had to do as Stalin would eventually attacked him anyway.

The problem is, you could not win over the army Russia had, plain and simple.


Oh, and I have not 'avoided' answering, I HAVE BEEN TRAVELLING, which is something you nodoubt never done. I been on a bus for 20 hours, then a car for 5 hours, then a bus again for 20+ and the list goes on. I am finally in a stable location so I might turn to answer some of Bronzes questions, aloit of them where Strawmen as well as he lied and stated things I never said.

Not never decent in debate circles. Hold on, aren't you one of the morons who thought the National Museum in Cairo was spelding and well kept? Odd, from someone who never seen it MUST be the only answer, as thats the complete opposite.

Maybe you should travel a bit? Try a different City? Then a different State? And Then, do it, Yes, Travel to a DIFFERENT COUNTRY, WOW, yes, 'Out There', that is, if you are not to afraid.


Its when you travelled the world you know How greate America is.

Bronze Dog said...

So, you haven't been avoiding these sorts of things because you've been traveling, and unable to answer them?

Is that why you've been posting from a typical woo script, rather than reading our complaints and responding to them?

Oh, and it's kind of pointless for a person who can't be bothered to explain himself to accuse others of performing the straw man fallacy.

So, how about you do what I invited you to do a while back, and explain step-by-step how you reached your conclusions about race, starting with premises and evidence and how your conclusion follows from them.

I can only guess and use my pattern recognition right now without that, since you seem to be quite bad at communicating in terms other than doggerel.

Bronze Dog said...

Minor note: Shortly after posting my comment, I checked my site traffic. There was one visitor reading from a Lima, Peru ISP, language set to Swedish.

So, looks like Gabe is indeed traveling. It wasn't a bad guess, Jacqueline, since IIRC, Jimmy Blue had some cause for suspicion.

Of course, that doesn't affect the bulk of my arguments and suspicions in any way. Gabe's still got a lot of stuff to explain.

Anonymous said...

I will, I just got a few min when I check no time for a in-depth respectful response, something I rarely see here ironically enough.

Also, as you lied on the last topic, indeed I want to address it, you know, saying I believe meme's to be magic when YOU where the one admitting it was as you deny them to be created by man, but by 'something' , which is another word for magic, which cant be explained, I asked you over and over again, nope, Humans not responsible for their Culture, its just 'there'.. Magic.

Anyway, I address you later, want to give yo ua proper response, and this 'woo' script etc, please keep the ad hominem at a minimum, you are the one who do not accept Reality but think Wikipedia is 'the real world' and actual EXPERIENCE (real world) is false. So please.

Bronze Dog said...

Reading comprehension fail. The point I was making was that a person is not responsible for the memes other people around him possessed. A person does not choose to be born into a particular culture.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Bronze Dog said...

To put that "magic" meme comment of mine back into context, it was a part of a simple hypothesis: If a person does not have access to knowledge and resources, they cannot become a cutting-edge scientist, no matter how many smart genes they have.

Nothing supernatural about that.

MWchase said...

As I said, I'm now less interested in an argument for Gabe's overall ideas (which pattern recognition indicates would be pathetic), and more interested in an explanation of the difference between Asian countries building on technology that they had not had previously, and Germany building on technology that it had not had previously (which pattern recognition indicates would be pathetically hilarious).

The biggest differences that I can see are geographical proximity, and the technology in question. I don't see how either of these would absolve Germany of "stealing" inventions of the Industrial Revolution.

Either address this question, or outright refuse to address it. Doing neither frays my temper.

Anonymous said...

Missed that.

No I am not reading 'from' Lima, its the ISP that the local provider is using which apparently goes through it so pretty much all providers say its 'Lima' wherever I am for some odd reason.

I am a bit further north.


And no, my keyboard is not 'set' to Swedish, it't got English (US), Swedish and Spanish that for some reason is jumping between eachother (Windows isn't working properly), it will say Spanish if i se my other windows version. I am trying to learn Swedish, the biggest of the Scandinavian countries because of Historical reasons, me having Viking Blood and all, but its not going good. :(


Anyway, I WILL answer properly, try to pre write it and paste it later for you.

Bronze Dog said...

I look forward to it.

(I love Notepad. Handy to copy/paste text without having to mess with inherent HTML.)

Anonymous said...

I know, I tried it out before the problem was that if I was unlucky the text got all chopped up here in the comments when I pasted it and it takes forever to correct it, and the comment box seem to prevent me from posting Long responses.

Anyway, It will come, not that you will listen :) (metaphorically speaking), ok, heading home.

Jacqueline said...

"Wow you are ignorant."
Some people consider talking to oneself the first sign of madness, Gabe.

"So apparently, because you have some grudge against Adolf Hitler and can not see past your biased and skewed views, you decided he was a 'loser'."

Dude, I have no grudge against Adolf Hitler. He is dead, and indeed he was a loser. Like you are. The FACTS of history were that the fool bit off more than he could chew and cowarded out when things got too tough for him. Not very superior is it?


"The only 'miss' he truly did was to attack Russia, which as you have no knowledge of history, was a bad move, but also a move he had to do as Stalin would eventually attacked him anyway."

Gabe, why do you reiterate my insults to you like a parrot. Is it due to your innate inferiority?

"The problem is, you could not win over the army Russia had, plain and simple."

Hitler was stupid enough not to realise that Russia is very cold in winter. But then again he was a Nordic superman, wasn't he? Born to the ice and superior to those Russkis. NOT.
You do know that before he shot himself in shame, Hitler said that the Russians were the super race, don't you Gabe?



"Maybe you should travel a bit? Try a different City? Then a different State? And Then, do it, Yes, Travel to a DIFFERENT COUNTRY, WOW, yes, 'Out There', that is, if you are not to afraid."

My invitation to come to India is still on. Are you scared of my elephant gun Gabe? Or are you less of a traveller than you like to let on?


Pina karna, pokattey!

JS;)

Jacqueline said...

"I will, I just got a few min when I check no time for a in-depth respectful response, something I rarely see here ironically enough."

Since you are blind to irony you might like to consider the amount of respect shown to Obama by yourself, just because you believe him to be inferior. And yet there he is the president of the USA and here you are making a total mess of trying to show the innate superiority of your "white" genes.

JS;)

Dark Jaguar said...

Grudge against Hitler? Are you really so completely at a loss as to why people might think he was a bad guy?

He invaded countries and killed countless people FOR NO GOOD REASON! Honestly, can you name even ONE good reason he had to try to conquer the frickin' world? Can you name one good reason to lock up and later exterminate hundreds of thousands of jewish people?

Here's a news flash. The best possible situation isn't to have "your group" take over everything. It's just to expand the definition of "your group" to, say, humanity, and then realize that humans have already deployed across the entire planet. Congrats! We've expanded everywhere! We won at war! Then, just corrollary that to consider countries fighting each other no different than a civil war, in terms of "us" as a species just hurting each other instead of coming to a rational agreement. All wars are a result of one "group" deciding that instead of cooperating with people, they have to GET RID of the other group. I'm not saying that sometimes a war is unavoidable, but in those situations it was only unavoidable on ONE side. The OTHER side could have tried another tactic.

Hitler had no good reason to do anything he did. That is why people have a "grudge" against him.

Jacqueline said...

"So apparently, because you have some grudge against Adolf Hitler and can not see past your biased and skewed views, you decided he was a 'loser'."

Gabe appears so "out there" that he seems to think that Hitler was a perfectly fair guy and you'd have to have " biased and skewed
views" to even contemplate the reality of his defeat and suicide.
I bet that Gabe is in South America looking for the secret enclave where they smuggled Adolf to after the SS faked his death.Seig heil woo believer!

Rick said...

So Gabe:

Are you ever going to get around to actually defining what you mean when you say white?

Jacqueline said...

Bronze Dog wrote:
"So, looks like Gabe is indeed traveling. It wasn't a bad guess, Jacqueline, since IIRC, Jimmy Blue had some cause for suspicion."

Bronze, it wasn't a guess.I was trying to find something to irritate Gabe. Wether he travels or not is irrelevant to the fact that he is a racist conspiracy monger, that should be treated with contempt.

JS;)

Bronze Dog said...

Meh. One thing I find interesting is that the last time he apparently had a window of opportunity to post, he wasted it not telling us his premises and the steps linking them to his conclusion. Lose the text file he was going to paste?