Showing posts with label Appeal_to_Ridicule. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Appeal_to_Ridicule. Show all posts

Monday, October 19, 2009

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #5.0: Gabriel, Summarized

Thanks for putting up with this extended troll roast, everyone. And Gabe, before you point out that appeal to ridicule is a fallacy, you should know that ridicule done right can highlight someone else's logical fallacies.

Here's something you should think about, Gabe: I think I've got a pretty good summary about how you respond to arguments. Try doing something different.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's asking for genetic data!

Response A: Change the subject to World of Warcraft and/or Wikipedia! (Thankfully he's at least learned not to do this anymore.)

Response B: Say that genetics is irrelevant, and that it's actually culture, like BD's been arguing, only instead argue that there's some metaphysical "blackness" about the bad parts of the cultures of impoverished nations.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointed out that people are heavily influenced by culture and resources!

Response A: Pretend he didn't say anything.

Response B: Rant about responsibility, as if everyone is an island who can just bootstrap themselves up like one of Ayn Rand's Marty Stu characters.


Stimulus: AIDS!

Response: Pretend that there's some metaphysical "blackness" about a virus that just happened to start in Africa but affects whites just as readily!


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointed out that it's a logical fallacy to assume correlation means causation!

Response: Declare that caring about logic is "telling."


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointing out that anecdotes are inherently unreliable!

Response: Copy/paste stereotypical anti-science rhetoric from some psychic wannabe and replace "psychics" with "whites."


Stimulus: Oh, no! Something happened with Obama outside this blog!

Response: Assume BD worships Obama despite his recent complaints about his inaction.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD mentioned the Dark Ages!

Response: Pretend he never mentioned it, and never attempt to explain the cause.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD mentioned the advanced-for-its-time nature of ancient Egypt!

Response: Change subject to modern Egypt.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD acknowledges the crappy state of many African nations, but explains their problems as a result of bad resource distribution, culture, and myriad other non-genetic causes!

Response: Pretend BD thinks Africa is full of prosperous first-world nations.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD asks for me to use race to explain scientific progress in first world nations!

Response: Ignore the question or pretend it's obvious.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD explains scientific progress as a result of available resources, cultural, educational, and communication-related factors! He also ridicules me by pointing out that alternative hypotheses require that scientists have formed a conspiracy to lie about how science is done!

Response: Pretend educational institutions have nothing to do with science.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD pointed out that a person can't choose what ideas are in the heads of the people they grew up with!

Response: Pretend that culture is witchcraft because no one person is completely responsible for a region's culture.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD pointed out that if Asians were too stupid to develop modern technology on their own, they wouldn't be able to understand current technology or improve it!

Response: Use the word "stole" as if it meant anything in this context.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD points out that many of the black people he's met, who have had access to similar cultural and educational standards, act and understand the same things white people do!

Response: Pretend he's trying to generalize from them, rather than provide exceptions I can't explain. (Invert and repeat for stupid white people.)


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD points out that the racial differences I talk about shrink as legal, cultural, and educational differences also shrink, like they're doing in first world countries.

Response: Change subject back to third world countries where BD's alternative explanations are even more prominent.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's given me a post specifically for explaining my hypothesis in detail!

Response: Waffle on and off topic for a couple weeks.

Friday, July 27, 2007

Everyone's Entitled to an Occasional Moment of Stupidity, Right?

Got one of those "take a tour for a free vacation" thing. Waiting for the email so I can cancel. The temptation to be able to get free air fare and hotel for the next The Amazing! Meeting clouded my generally better judgment.

I'm gonna call it off before it ends up like one of those time share things on South Park when I'll find out the aggressive sales pitch goes all the way up to the president.

Commence making fun of me.

At least no physical injury came of it.

Monday, June 04, 2007

They've Discovered Our Secret!

It seems an anonymous whistleblower has provided Orac with a transcript of a meeting within Big Pharma to discuss the various methods of poisoning children, and while doing so, making *pinky to lips* ONE MILLION DOLLARS!

Okay, so I blew the suspense. No big pharma conspiracy, but a good illustration of the inherent silliness of the conspiracy theories mixed with showing just how bad some of the alties are at doing their homework.

Some favorite quotes below the fold:

"Be happy that I am in a benevolent mood; I would expect an employee of this great conglomerate to have been able to figure it out for himself." This time ESB's smile did not seem so mild. "Olmsted's misinformation and bad arguments suit my purposes well."

"Then he works for MegaPharmCo?"

"Not at all," continued ESB. "I would not employ such a fool in my organization. My standards are much higher than that. However, Olmsted's very foolishness is useful to us. Yes, he castigates vaccines. Yes, he claims that they cause autism. Yes, he claims that the mercury in them causes autism. On the surface, these would all appear to be potentially harmful to us. However, he does so with such specious and utterly intellectually bankrupt arguments that his very ridiculousness discredits that which he hopes to champion and the hysterical fear-mongering about vaccines that he is trying to raise.
and:
"You know what this means?" asked ESB. "I'll tell you. Clearly, Olmsted has found our Bacardi shell company. He has found our true operation and purpose, to make the world autistic through the use of tasty, refreshing, and strong alcoholic beverages with citrus and spearmint. He must have gone underground. You have failed. You could not keep even a credulous fool with bad reasoning skills from discovering this!"

Sunday, April 08, 2007

Bizarro Holidays!

Here's something I'm considering: Using lots of alternative names for various religious holidays, like how I always say "Decemberween" instead of you-know-what. That particular practice of mine started when I got a big chunk of the Religious Wrong burning it down because they can't stand the idea of anyone saying "Happy Holidays."

But I digress. I suggest we put together a list of all the religious holidays we can think of, and come up with silly sacrilegious counterparts. Let's not limit ourselves to one religion. Frequency of use will rise when someone gets chauvinistic about a particular holiday.

Here's a bit to get it started:

Easter -> Ovipositional Bunny Day

Okay, so I'm not all that inspired at the moment. I'll get the juices going eventually.

Thursday, October 12, 2006

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #4.0

Got a new record for a comment thread's length, thanks to a troll. It featured a lot of posts that essentially amounted to claims that asking him to define meaningless words was a "semantics game," while he claimed that the terms are inherently undefinable, or provided definitions that covered absolutely everything that could possibly exist. He's also returned as I type this.

So, here we go:

[Appeal_to_Ridicule="Tu_Quoque"]

IDiot: "I contend that there is a big whatsit that designed the universe!"

Skeptic: "What's your evidence?"

IDiot: "Everything's designed."

Skeptic: "What makes you think that?"

IDiot: "It's all flarschnikity!"

Skeptic: "What do you mean?"

IDiot: "It's in the dictionary."

Skeptic: "I see it, but it doesn't relate. It's also quite vague. Maybe you should define it."

IDiot: "Playing the semantics, game, huh? You just want to tie down my definition so that you can refute it."

Skeptic: "Well, it's not very productive to debate in the meaningless gibberish you're creating. Besides, if you've made your argument impossible to refute, there's no way to know if you're wrong. If an unfalsifiable hypothesis is wrong, you'd never be able to tell."

IDiot: "Why do you hate flarschnikit?!"

Skeptic: "Wha? How can I hate something I don't know anything about? You said it was undefinable. I might as well make up a word of my own and ask you why you hate it."

IDiot: "Well, your hypothesis about black holes is stupid! You've never seen a black hole! You've never seen gravity in action!"

Skeptic: "We have seen gravity in action. It's in all sorts of practical applications. We've also seen black holes exert gravity on nearby objects. Black holes have observable effects, and we're observing them."

IDiot: "You've never seen gravity in action!"

Skeptic: "Uh, yes I have. I see it all the time in the course of my regular activities."

IDiot: "You've never seen gravity in action!"

Skeptic: "Even if I didn't see it in everyday life, there is such a thing as evidence: I don't have to see a rock fall: I can see it higher up in one instance, and come back to see it lower. I can also set up controlled tests to verify."

IDiot: "So you admit you don't have to actually see stuff to know it's there! You have faith in air, even though you've got evidence, and no need for faith! I win by redefiinition!"

[/Appeal_to_Ridicule]

Thursday, July 06, 2006

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #3.0: A Slight Twist on a Birthday Wish

Inspired by an anonymous commenter in the first entry.

[Appeal_to_Ridicule]

Police officer: Sylvia Browne, you're under arrest for fraud! Your mass email campaign from Nigeria appears to be a scam to cheat investors out of money! You have the right to remain silent...

Sylvia Browne: You can't prove that investors didn't make money!

Police officer: That's not the problem. The problem is that you can't prove there was a legitimate business model behind the whole thing. There's even some evidence to suggest you used a few tricks to inflate stock prices and fudge the books. You'll get off if you can prove otherwise.

Sylvia Browne: But I donated some of the money I took in to charity!

Police officer: Trying to ease you conscience? You still lied to get that money, and you still spent some to selfishly improve your quality of life. Donating to charity just means you're slightly less evil than the purely selfish con artists who keep all their ill-gotten gains.

Sylvia Browne: Stop being so negative! I gave people hopes and dreams, just like those guys who sell X-ray specs to kids so that for six-to-eight weeks, they'll have hopes and dreams of being able to see through walls... and other things.

Police officer: And you think that's a GOOD thing? Giving people false hopes so that they can live in denial? You're one sick puppy. I hope they lock you up for a looooong time.

[/Appeal_to_Ridicule]

---

The Big Sylvia Browne Thread

Wednesday, June 07, 2006

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #2.0

Dear ______,
I've been reading your (website/blog/forum/post/comment), full of verifiable references on ______, and I think it's very closed-minded of you to dismiss _______ without researching it. I have lots of problems with your opinion, but I don't feel like specifying any objections or if I do, provide any basis for my objections beyond disagreement for disagreement's sake. I just want to hear the sound of my own typing by expressing my opposition and feel better about my _____ by calling your _____ deficient, even though that has nothing to do with the topic. It is also immature to call my subject change for what it is, you 12-year-old doodie-head. (Websites/Blogs/Forums) were created for inane rambling that goes nowhere, not the discussion of evidence, so I am fully justified in continuing to nitpick about people's increasingly hostile complaints when I show the politeness of stalling my earth-shattering discoveries about ______ to complain about the fact that they're complaining. The primary thing you have to think about is that it's impossible that your explanation(s), _______________ could cover _______. It all amounts to you having the wrong worldview, where evidence must be collected, examined, and discussed, unlike the real world, where (testimonials/life experiences/spam emails) determine reality.

Every time you (forward this spam/visit this website/click this button), an amount of ______ will be donated towards curing Little Timmy of his __COLD__.

Sincerely,
_DJLegacy___.

(Via JREF Forums)

Thursday, February 02, 2006

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1.1


Time for a little more [Appeal]. Fore Sam, also known as John Best, apparently a man of a thousand pseudonyms and great notoriety among skeptical bloggers, continues his nonsense on Respectful Insolence. This time, although he swears he's talking about autism, he expresses a great deal of interest in my employment and investment portfolio. Wish I had a financial consultant who was that interested in my money. This fetish grows to the point that he decides to withhold fundamental information about the (alleged) mercury-autism link (specifically how the Hg2+ cation separates itself from the thimerosal molecule, since my quick Google search came up with nothing) unless I satisfy his need to know. One wonders if he'll give me real proof of ghosts if I give him my social security, credit card, and personal identification numbers. Anyway, I've given him a little bite, and he may just give me that particular answer. Time will tell.

Anyway, enough with slightly exaggerating. On to XTREEEEME Xaggeration... I didn't just do that, did I? I'm going to sentence myself to a thousand baps with a rolled-up newspaper.

[Appeal_to_Ridicule]

Fore Sam: There's no time! You have to listen to me because there are lots of children suffering from autism right now! If we don't act now, they'll be condemned to a life of banging their head on the wall.

Bronze Dog: Woah, let's not be too hasty. I know we have to act, but we can't be rash to accept an unproven treatment based on an unproven cause working on a mechanism we don't know.

Fore Sam: That's not important, now! I'll tell you my plan after you answer my question: Do you have any stock in pharmaceutical companies?

Bronze Dog: Huh? What's this got to do with autism?

Fore Sam: I was thinking you might want to sell some of that stock and diversify your portfolio. Can't stay in one industry. You were there for the dot com bubble, weren't you?

Bronze Dog: I'm still not clear on how this relates to autism.

Fore Sam: Have you thought about interest rates, lately? You might also think about taking some equity out on your home or something.

Bronze Dog: Why aren't you talking about autism? I'm not the subject.

Fore Sam: Stonewalling the truth will get you nowhere. Now stop running away from the subject.

Bronze Dog: I don't own any stock.

Fore Sam: Oh.

To be continued . . . ?

[/Appeal_to_Ridicule]

So, question I asked the Rockstar groupies last time, but didn't get an answer to: Would this be considered a reducto ad absurdum instead? I'd love it if I had a flimsy pretense to do shrink gun jokes. Back off!

You know, all of this could have been avoided if chelators spent a little of their money on simple, proper double-blind control studies.

Links:
[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1.0
[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1.1

Thursday, January 19, 2006

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1


And Fore Sam's bad grades have nothing to do with the complete lack of references, data, or even showing of work.

That's what it's been like arguing with him at Prometheus's blog in the "Field Guide to Quackery" Part 2 and Bartholemew Cubbin's blog on autism. Lots of accusations, straw men, subject changes, and misrepresentations, too.

So, without further ado, a script based on our argument, and suspiciously similar to an episode of Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law:

[Appeal_to_Ridicule]

Fore Sam: Oh, no! My office has been burgled! Robbed! Purloined! Ha-ha... Loin... *buzzes on the intercom* Everyone, get in here! "Someone has stolen my baby-grand piano!"

BronzeDog: *thinking* "Was there ever a piano in here? I don't remember seeing it."

Fore Sam: "Of course there was! You can still see the dimples in the carpet where it stood... right next to the 40 foot tall gold Buddha. How dare you accuse me of never having a piano!"

BronzeDog: *Starts looking for dimples. Never finds any, since no one will point out their location in the giant office. Continues thinking,* "Now, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a 40 foot gold Buddha in here."

Fore Sam: "Of course there was a 40 foot Buddha in here. How dare you accuse me of never having one! And keep your thoughts to yourself, BronzeDog!" *sniff* "I'm a victim."

Later...

BronzeDog: "Uh, sir, can you show me a photo of the piano and gold buddha? And have you considered you might have just misplace-"

Fore Sam, interrupting: "BronzeDog! I can't believe what I'm hearing!" *gets in BronzeDog's face.* "Do you support the thief?!"

BronzeDog: "N-no, I just want to make sure there isn't another explanation."

Fore Sam: "Well, I don't want to hear any more of these photograph or misplacement sophistries. All you need to see is my empty office to know that my stuff was stolen."

[/Appeal_to_Ridicule]

On second thought, would that merely be a reducto ad absurdum?

Links:
[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1.0
[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #1.1