Monday, October 19, 2009

[Appeal_to_Ridicule] #5.0: Gabriel, Summarized

Thanks for putting up with this extended troll roast, everyone. And Gabe, before you point out that appeal to ridicule is a fallacy, you should know that ridicule done right can highlight someone else's logical fallacies.

Here's something you should think about, Gabe: I think I've got a pretty good summary about how you respond to arguments. Try doing something different.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's asking for genetic data!

Response A: Change the subject to World of Warcraft and/or Wikipedia! (Thankfully he's at least learned not to do this anymore.)

Response B: Say that genetics is irrelevant, and that it's actually culture, like BD's been arguing, only instead argue that there's some metaphysical "blackness" about the bad parts of the cultures of impoverished nations.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointed out that people are heavily influenced by culture and resources!

Response A: Pretend he didn't say anything.

Response B: Rant about responsibility, as if everyone is an island who can just bootstrap themselves up like one of Ayn Rand's Marty Stu characters.


Stimulus: AIDS!

Response: Pretend that there's some metaphysical "blackness" about a virus that just happened to start in Africa but affects whites just as readily!


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointed out that it's a logical fallacy to assume correlation means causation!

Response: Declare that caring about logic is "telling."


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointing out that anecdotes are inherently unreliable!

Response: Copy/paste stereotypical anti-science rhetoric from some psychic wannabe and replace "psychics" with "whites."


Stimulus: Oh, no! Something happened with Obama outside this blog!

Response: Assume BD worships Obama despite his recent complaints about his inaction.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD mentioned the Dark Ages!

Response: Pretend he never mentioned it, and never attempt to explain the cause.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD mentioned the advanced-for-its-time nature of ancient Egypt!

Response: Change subject to modern Egypt.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD acknowledges the crappy state of many African nations, but explains their problems as a result of bad resource distribution, culture, and myriad other non-genetic causes!

Response: Pretend BD thinks Africa is full of prosperous first-world nations.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD asks for me to use race to explain scientific progress in first world nations!

Response: Ignore the question or pretend it's obvious.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD explains scientific progress as a result of available resources, cultural, educational, and communication-related factors! He also ridicules me by pointing out that alternative hypotheses require that scientists have formed a conspiracy to lie about how science is done!

Response: Pretend educational institutions have nothing to do with science.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD pointed out that a person can't choose what ideas are in the heads of the people they grew up with!

Response: Pretend that culture is witchcraft because no one person is completely responsible for a region's culture.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD pointed out that if Asians were too stupid to develop modern technology on their own, they wouldn't be able to understand current technology or improve it!

Response: Use the word "stole" as if it meant anything in this context.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD points out that many of the black people he's met, who have had access to similar cultural and educational standards, act and understand the same things white people do!

Response: Pretend he's trying to generalize from them, rather than provide exceptions I can't explain. (Invert and repeat for stupid white people.)


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD points out that the racial differences I talk about shrink as legal, cultural, and educational differences also shrink, like they're doing in first world countries.

Response: Change subject back to third world countries where BD's alternative explanations are even more prominent.


Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's given me a post specifically for explaining my hypothesis in detail!

Response: Waffle on and off topic for a couple weeks.

121 comments:

Gabriel said...

I found a link you should read.

Read this BD, the entire story, its a good story, says alot.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25994

Gabriel said...

I will ignore the lies you included (claiming the complete opposite of what I actually said) and make some remarks here;


1.
Stimulus: Oh, no! BD's pointed out that people are heavily influenced by culture and resources!

Response A: Pretend he didn't say anything.


I pointed this out myself, I was the one pointing out that the culture, or memes are heavily controlling, you also decided that people are NOT responsible for their culture, it its somehow 'magical' and not their responsibility.

Remember?


2.
Stimulus: AIDS!

Response: Pretend that there's some metaphysical "blackness" about a virus that just happened to start in Africa but affects whites just as readily!


Lying may not help you, but most likely score points amongst your blind followers.

No, I pointed out that HIV was a negro disease, they spread it to us, not we to them.


3.
Stimulus: Oh, no! BD mentioned the advanced-for-its-time nature of ancient Egypt!

Response: Change subject to modern Egypt.


If Egypt is so 'advanced' why are they a third world nation now? What did they really do, build some buildings? What have we done? Etc, see context.


4.
Stimulus: Oh, no! BD pointed out that if Asians were too stupid to develop modern technology on their own, they wouldn't be able to understand current technology or improve it!

Response: Use the word "stole" as if it meant anything in this context.


This just makes no sense. Lets say an alien race gives us technology we could only dream of, start using it and examining it and learn new things, are we then somehow EQUAL to these Aliens?

No, we simple got ahold of new technology, just as we gave Asians technology that they took to them. If you hold this claim you need to hold that, in the Alien Scenario, we would magically be equal as well because we understand their tehnology.

Dude, can you bullshit more.

DwellerinDarkness said...

Stopped reading that "story" after Clarence's first major blunder. Most natives in cold climates don't live in tents. Styles and architecture vary.

The Algonquin, for example, made their dwellings out of trees bent together, then covered over with bark, twigs, moss and peat. The perception that they're "tents" comes from the tendency to top them off with animal hides, but it's rather disingenuous to call them "tents."

The Iroquois built houses. Well, not quite, but pretty much. The earliest settlers report that they even had wooden palisades, walls built to keep their enemies out.

I'm guessing that at some point later on Clarence says something about the natives getting their ideas for shelter from Europeans. Never bothered reading further. If you do make that argument Gabe, I'm read, but I'll not waste my breath just yet.

Gabriel said...

Haha, you refute it because of SEMANTICS? You claim its not a hut, sure, call it 'house' if you want, its all semantics, makes no difference.

How amusing to see people denying things by claiming different use of words.. Wow... Read the entire thing, I liked it, you, who did not read it, cant have much opinion if you dont finish it...

Other then that its debunked because its "NOT A TENT, ITS NOT A TENT, it just LOOKS like a tent, its a HOUSE.. Well, sorta.."

Comeone.

Bronze Dog said...

Before I waste time reading the "story," how exactly is it going to contribute to your argument?

I'd rather not waste time if it's not going to contribute to explaining your pet woo theory.

I'm still trying to squeeze out a definition of "white" and want to know how "whiteness" encourages scientific progress.

DwellerinDarkness said...

They worked for settlers. When people - pardon, "whites" - moved onto the plains, they oftenused native techniques to build their dwellings, in some places only modifying them very slightly, as in Western Canada where the sod-house only fell out of fashion after the sod became too thin to sustain housing.

Here in New England, people who design barns use many of the same architectural techniques native Iroquois used - and before you say anything disparaging about the techniques only being good enough for animals, people only lived separate from their animals in those places where they have the luxury of giving them separate housing - in Viking communities, livestock often shared house with people.

Right, then, getting past semantics. An average long-house was, according to the first European settlers, about forty feet long and twenty feet wide and about that tall. The frame typically consisted of elm poles hung with bark shingles. In colder areas, three or four layers of shingles can be applied.

I had the privilege to stay in such a dwelling in late October. It was about 30 degrees that night, but you wouldn't known it from the temperature inside the house. Heavy furs hung over the doorways and the ceiling shingles were stone, which radiated the heat back quite nicely.

Me and and my one blanket were quite warm that night.

I did scan the rest of it - I lost track of the number of things I saw wrong, from Europeans getting sole credit for inventing the handgun and the sextant to the promulgation of the Aryan myth, to the utter convenience of the professor's Jewish last name adding that subtle hint of anti-semitism.

I make it a practice to take stupid things apart. I think I've found my next target.

Tom Foss said...

www.stormfront.org

Oh good, an unbiased source.

No, I pointed out that HIV was a negro disease, they spread it to us, not we to them.

Evidence, please. While the disease almost certainly originated in Africa, and probably resulted from the butchering of monkeys for food, it was during the turn of the 19th-20th centuries...you know, when Europeans were busy colonizing, conquering, and urbanizing the area. You're the one who likes to draw connections between correlation and causation, Gabe: why is it that bushmeat hunters had been eating monkeys for centuries before the Europeans showed up, but HIV only developed after the whites moved in?

Incidentally, the first recorded AIDS case was a British printer--you know, a white guy.

More AIDS info worth noting, from the Wikipedia article (and sourced to these three articles):

Conditions that facilitated the establishment and spread of infection in human populations may have included the reuse of needles for injectable antibiotics, antimalarial drugs and vaccines; an increase in bushmeat hunting and immune suppression as a result of the harsh conditions, forced labor and displacement associated with colonialism, particularly in French Equatorial Africa; rapid urbanisation that brought infected people into close contact with others; and colonial commerce that provided opportunities for further geographical spread.

Tell us, Gabe: how dangerous would that disease have been if not for the Europeans? It may have originated in Africans (although again, we don't have patient zero, and our earliest case is a European who never even went to Africa), but it was the Europeans who made it a deadly pandemic.

If Egypt is so 'advanced' why are they a third world nation now? What did they really do, build some buildings? What have we done? Etc, see context.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Did you even read what BD wrote?

Gabe, as usual, you fail at reading, comprehension, logic, and history. Oh, and consistency, Mr. "Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but I'm going to refer you to a racist glurge on a white supremacist message board as if it has some kind of value."

St.B said...

Haha, OMG, Gabe is still here? Has he become the resident troll? I wouldn’t think that would be a position to be sought or taken over with such aplomb. It seems he has joyfully submitted and reveled in the state. I take it now he is adding aboriginals to the mix as less than satisfactory hominids.

I shall have to immerse myself in all the “gabe-ness” of the past posts I missed and see what new claptrap has transpired. I can get some chuckles in and let my ire at sheer stupidity run rampant.

bonus vicis

Touro73 said...

Quote Gabriel " No, I pointed out that HIV was a negro disease, they spread it to us, not we to them."

....... duh .......

Are you for real? I would like to say more, but I can't without being insulting.

Rick said...

So Gabe:

Just what do you mean when you say white?

(Perhaps I should include an insult, to provoke a more blatant hiding from such a simple question.)

I'd suggest for you to settle down and start farming, but somehow I think any fruit you produce will be strange.

Jacqueline said...

Gabe waffled:
"Read the entire thing, I liked it, you, who did not read it, cant have much opinion if you dont finish it..."


Have you read The Greatest Show on Earth yet Gabe? Or are you still masturbating over Mein Kampf?
Did anyone ever tell you that Hitler topped himself in fear of the Russkis. Not very superior is it?



JS;)

Dunc said...

Gabe, I've got a link you should read: Genes, peoples, and languages, L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences vol.94

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe: "Read the entire thing, I liked it, you, who did not read it, cant have much opinion if you dont finish it..."

"I don't need to eat the whole egg to know it's rotten." -Mark Twain (allegedly)

Of course, I'm still waiting for Gabe to tell me how exactly this story is going to advance his hypothesis at all. So far, I don't see any reason to believe there's any genetic data gathered in it or any useful definition of "white" that pertains to this conversation.

Anyway, snips:

I pointed this out myself, I was the one pointing out that the culture, or memes are heavily controlling, you also decided that people are NOT responsible for their culture, it its somehow 'magical' and not their responsibility.

Remember?


Liar.

No, I pointed out that HIV was a negro disease, they spread it to us, not we to them.

So, where's the "negroness" in the virus's genetic code?

If Egypt is so 'advanced' why are they a third world nation now? What did they really do, build some buildings? What have we done? Etc, see context.

Do you have any concept of time whatsoever? Egypt WAS once advanced. Past tense.

They were able to build enormous structures like the pyramids with some rather impressive math and geometry that other cultures at the time didn't have.

This just makes no sense. Lets say an alien race gives us technology we could only dream of, start using it and examining it and learn new things, are we then somehow EQUAL to these Aliens?

If we can understand the same things they can, I don't see why not.

No, we simple got ahold of new technology, just as we gave Asians technology that they took to them. If you hold this claim you need to hold that, in the Alien Scenario, we would magically be equal as well because we understand their tehnology.

Two groups with an equal understanding of technology aren't equal?

The question you need to ask yourself is "How are they different?"

djfav said...

Gabe links to fucking Stormfront. That's hilarious. And he wonders why no one takes him seriously.

Bronze Dog said...

I find it interesting that Gabe's completely retreating from his genetic theory and moving back to talking about culture, science, and technology and speaking as if, for example, "Force = mass * acceleration" somehow has Sir Isaac Newton's 'whiteness' attached to it.

He must be one very confused individual to believe in two contradictory theories at once.

The swap over must be due to all the ownage we handed out giving him a lesson in evolution and how all the evidence biologists have gathered contradicts his tale.

And, of course, his genetic tale also required, a priori, that we outright reject the modern synthesis of evolution in favor of some magical continuous model of heredity that apparently allows absurdities like half-genes that still work.

Dunc said...

I think it's being overly generous to grant that he has a "theory". He has a collection of prejudices, which he's trying to justify in a completely incoherent and scattershot fashion with whatever comes to hand. Using the term "theory" implies that he's got some sort of coherent system of thought which has led to his conclusions, rather than a bunch of conclusions he's trying (and failing) to fit into a system of "thought".

Bronze Dog said...

Sorry. I've using the principle of generosity for so long with Gabe, it's a habit. Of course, we all know he's all bluff and bluster, which is why he's been actively avoiding any requests for clarification.

And that's pretty well why all his accusations of straw man fall flat.

We can't argue against his (probably nonexistent) real position if he avoids answering the most basic of questions about it.

That's why we're forced to piece it together from his incoherent rambles.

Bronze Dog said...

Anyway, back to some elaboration on Gabe's alien analogy:

This just makes no sense. Lets say an alien race gives us technology we could only dream of, start using it and examining it and learn new things, are we then somehow EQUAL to these Aliens?

No, we simple got ahold of new technology, just as we gave Asians technology that they took to them. If you hold this claim you need to hold that, in the Alien Scenario, we would magically be equal as well because we understand their tehnology.


What I hear:

Let's start with two things. One is better than the other. Then we make that other one as good as the first, so that they're identical in quality.

But one's still better than the other.

And for unspecified reasons, it's silly to think otherwise.


That's the first contradiction I see in this whole "stealing" technology thing, Gabe: You're saying equality is unequal.

Bronze Dog said...

And I see an alternate interpretation:

Okay, so we gave Japan some electronic technologies, including the invention of the transistor. Are you saying that a Japanese man designing an integrated circuit for a cute robot right now is incapable of understanding how the transistors in that circuit work?

MWchase said...

And to reiterate: Germany. Industrialization. Glass houses.

If Asians do not understand transistors, because of how they got the technology, then Germans do not understand internal combustion engines. This follows exactly from what Gabe has claimed. Does anybody dispute that?

Bronze Dog said...

And, how about we take a break on commenting right there. I'd really like to get an answer out of Gabe on that.

Gabriel said...

To start with, I would like to be completely honest, I cried when I read this, it was a beautiful story. The
two main reasons I got emotional was that George stood against and fought against
the bullshit "Dr.Silverstein, Ph.D" where spewing and lead the students to the light (metaphorically), the
second reason was that I can see "Dr.Silverstein, Ph.D" right now indoctrinating innocent students today,
and thinking back to College I remember a Silverstein I had myself during my innocent young and naive
years.

I can see several (to the ones that went to College here) people spewing similar bullshit that I heard then,
and that you would spew now if you follow the doctrine of 'whites are bad, be ashamed', and It just saddens
me.

Now I took a couple of quotes and made some comments about the beautiful story here, pardon editing as
we got limited space in the blog comment box, I tried to make it as small and short as possible, go to the
link provided if you want to see the entire story (or confused by something I took out from it).

My thoughts and Comments:


There once was a college freshman named George who thought he knew it all. One night over dinner,
George got into an argument with his father. The argument began when the young student tried to explain
to his father that as White people, they should be held accountable for all the evils that they had inflicted upon
non-Whites throughout history.


I wonder how many Whites, not to mention none-Whites, truly believe this. The things White man has done and
even mentioning historic instances and want to blame/punish current population whom are in no way related to it,
is disgusting.

George explained: "Because of European racism, we stole the Indians' land, we held blacks in slavery, we
persecuted the Jews, and we plundered the environment. We've been oppressive racists for thousands of years
so it's only fair that we pay economic reparations for all the harm we've done to the world. I'm pleased to see that
we are ending our political and economic domination of the oppressed peoples."


Lets see, if you believe that we are somehow to be blamed for passed 'evils', lets see how the rest of the
world acted and was during this time, that is, lets see the cultural meme's of the times.

Slavery: Most slaves where bought from domestic slave dealers, tribes who sell their 'own', irony at
its best. If they
would not have been sold to 'American' slave dealers they would end up in some Tribe living a far more horrible
life then they could imagine in America, and most likely die much earlier.


'Indians' (Native Americans): That we 'stole' the Natives land is a rather weird way of saying it, we
moved into the Americas and civilized it, the world is getting smaller, no issue here.


Persecuted the Jews(?): I dont know about this one, we? Jews have been persecuted universally,
Arabs, Europeans, you name it, this is in no way a specific point to mention towards whites.


Plundered Environment We use resources to create the wonderful society we live in now, Computers,
Unlimited
Food, Hospitals and Schools, I have no issue with this point. All other societies have done the same, as we are
the most advanced, obviously we use more resources.



The entire point of Georges mumbling is based on Silverstein's previous indoctrination, remember, 'Dr". Silverstein
does have a Ph.D, after all. Remind you of College?



George's dad was shocked to hear such talk. "Who put such commie-pinko nonsense into your head, boy?
Did one of your sandal-wearing hippie college professors teach you that?" the father asked.

Gabriel said...

To which the son replied: "That's the truth dad. My anthropology professor, Dr.Irving Silverstein, says so. He ought
to know. Dr. Silverstein is a well-respected Ph.D. People of your generation just don't understand because you were
raised in a White supremacist racist society. That's why I've come to admire Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King as the
greatest man in American history. He stood up to the racists of your generation. Because of him, my generation of
White kids is completely colourblind."


Yes, the professor at his College had 'taught' him to hate his own race and be ashamed of our wonderful history. I can
see people, just like you Bronze Dog, sitting there having a hard time swallowing this, do you feel awkward because
it is true, or because you feel shame for being a fool? Either way, I hope you think for awhile before you spout an insulting
comment towards me, let it sink it for awhile.



.... there was a blast of cold wind, an explosion, and a huge smoke cloud. When the smoke had settled, George
found himself alone and lost in a cold open field. An angel named Clarence then appeared to him and said "Well George,
you've got your wish." George asked: "Where am I? What's going on here? And who are you? The angel answered, "George,
I'm Clarence the Angel. I was sent here to show you what the world would have been like if Europeans, or Whites, had
never existed. You now live in a world where Europeans never existed....."



Two Oranges for surprise effect, five bananas for getting to the point. :)
No Comment, just wanted to get it rolling.

Gabriel said...

"I don't think you understand George. There are no buildings here in non-white America because the evil Europeans
never came here to build them. Whites never existed, remember? The natives live in tents. Would you like to go meet
some local Indians? Perhaps they'll let you stay in a tent." "A tent? But it's 10 degrees outside?...Oh well. It's better than
a cave I suppose.


One member commented on the Tents, I do not know why, perhaps he have some personal prejudice against tents, either
way, I do want to make a point. The Native Americans where extremely behind in technology, not only so, they where also
rather static, it is rather safe to say, or even State clearly, that if White man had not settled North America, it would look
pretty much be the same today, as then, I doubt many of you would truly debate this, but no doubt you would just 'because'.
They would most likely have expanded somewhat, possible even 'cities', or very large villages, but nothing close to the world we
have today.


Let's go talk to these Indians...... Wait a second, are these Indians friendly or hostile?" "Why, George, that's a racist
question to ask. Just because some Indians were brutal savages who scalped their victims alive, it doesn't mean they all
were" said the angel sarcastically.


Indeed, because we, The Evil White Race are racist murdering bastards who attacked the innocent native americans.....



........Clarence and George had arrived at the temple of the Incans. A bloody human sacrifice was in progress. George
turned to Clarence and cried, "They're going to butcher that poor soul! Somebody has got to stop this. What horrible murdering
beasts! Can't anyone stop them?" The angel replied "I'm afraid not. Ritual killings are common place here. "Those evil European
racists like Columbus, Cortez and Pizzaro never existed so the Incans just continued their brutal ways. In fact, it was the
oppressed peoples themselves who made up the bulk of the Spanish armed forces.


Worth a point, yes indeed, we not only Civilized the South Americans, we introduced them to technology, they are themselves
responsible for what they did or did not do with this knowledge.



.....When they arrived in Africa, George saw thousands of half-naked African tribesmen being herded along a dirt path. They
were guarded by other Africans with spears. "What are they doing to those poor men?" George asked Clarence.
"They are being enslaved by another tribe. Slavery was common in Africa long before the whites arrived." Clarence said."In fact,
most of the slaves who were shipped to the Americas were sold to the slave traders by African tribal leaders."....


This should have been taught to you in history class, but I remember very clearly that my school, a very reputable school, did
not cover this very well, atleast not as well as they 'covered' the evils of White man as my own "Dr Silverstein" did at our school,
Did they cover this in your school? Or did you find out by other means?

And finally, did you have a "Dr Silverstein" Bronze Dog?


Thats enough for now.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe: The argument began when the young student tried to explain to his father that as White people, they should be held accountable for all the evils that they had inflicted upon non-Whites throughout history.

Kind of irrelevant in regards to me.

I wonder how many Whites, not to mention none-Whites, truly believe this.

No one that I know.

The entire point of Georges mumbling is based on Silverstein's previous indoctrination, remember, 'Dr". Silverstein does have a Ph.D, after all. Remind you of College?

And how is this guy relevant at all to me and my readers?

Yes, the professor at his College had 'taught' him to hate his own race and be ashamed of our wonderful history. I can see people, just like you Bronze Dog, sitting there having a hard time swallowing this, do you feel awkward because it is true, or because you feel shame for being a fool? Either way, I hope you think for awhile before you spout an insulting comment towards me, let it sink it for awhile.

What does this subject change have to do with me?

My ancestors have done both good and bad in the world. Pretty much all human ancestors have, regardless of "race."

Gabriel said...

Other then, of course, the white race done most good. You know the computer you are using? The food you are eating? The society you live in? Yes, you take it all for granted, but because of Clarence George got a chance to see how it would have been without the White man.

Respect your race.

Bronze Dog said...

Why draw dividing lines at race? Why can't I just respect the great thinkers as individual human beings?

djfav said...

Silverstein.

And it was posted at Stormfront.

Interesting.

Bronze Dog said...

I get some whiff of urban legend glurge, but I really don't really have any motivation to investigate, since the story doesn't really relate.

So, any comment on where that alien analogy went, Gabe?

Bronze Dog said...

"...really don't really..."

Pleh. Guess I fell asleep while typing, or my subconscious was trying too hard to express how limp that whole alleged point seemed. Anyway, re-reading just because...

This should have been taught to you in history class, but I remember very clearly that my school, a very reputable school, did not cover this very well, atleast not as well as they 'covered' the evils of White man as my own "Dr Silverstein" did at our school,

Did they cover this in your school? Or did you find out by other means?


Yeah, those sorts of facts about Native Americans/Indians/Whatever really was covered at my school, expanded on in college, and shown on the TV channels I watched, like Discovery.

Please don't bore me by telling me stuff I already know.

MWchase said...

"White people invented computers."

I'd just like to point out that one of the pioneers in the field of computer science, Alan Turing, was gay. If you get to invoke correlation, then so do we.

And speaking of crops, George Washington Carver made some major contributions to agriculture, so there's that, too.

Gabriel said...

Where did the Alien Analogy go? I am surprised you mentioned it as it proves my point. Of course, you deny this for some strange reason, lets make it clearer.

Today, 2009, An Alien Race lands infront of the White House and declares its peaceful intentions of educating and helping humanity to superior technology.

They give us amazing technologies as well as instructions and detailed explanations of how to use it. We then manage, in a couple of years, to enter the Space Age of 'exploring new galaxies' and other Star Wars mumbojumbo (I assume you, as a Lord of the Rings fan enjoy your Trekkie moments)...

Now, you state that this makes Human beings EQUAL to the Alien race, exactly, how does that work? WE would never haveget the technology they had in a hundred years, or much much more if ever. You claim that we magically become EQUAL to the Aliens whom are superior to us i t ecnhology, please explain how this skewed logic works?

Gabriel said...

MWchase, wow, you think that having a disease make you transform into another race?

I strongly recommend you to read up about Evolution and general Biology, read Dawkins new book, it could help you out and take some classes in School. Wow you are ignorant.

Bronze Dog said...

My own comment got eaten.

Recreating...

Gabe:

Now, you state that this makes Human beings EQUAL to the Alien race, exactly, how does that work?

Equal understanding of technology makes both equal. Where's the difference?

WE would never haveget the technology they had in a hundred years, or much much more if ever.

Why not? And if we couldn't possibly have invented it with enough time and proper circumstances, how could the aliens possibly teach us to understand it at all?

Aside from having those technologies, what makes these hypothetical aliens different from humans?

MWchase said...

Presumably, they have prosthetic foreheads and only one personality trait.

Hmm... while I dispute categorizing homosexuality as a 'disease', I can only imagine the digressions that would take us down. Nevertheless, I'm curious as to the exact definition of 'disease' that you're using.

(tl;dr of previous paragraph: "I don't want to talk about this, except that I do." Awesome.)

Tom Foss said...

Shorter Gabe copypasta: "I jerk off to Birth of a Nation.

Bronze Dog said...

Let's say the Vulcans know how to build a starship that can fly at Warp 5.

They land on Earth and teach humankind how to build a starship that can fly at Warp 5. They teach the humans Warp Theory, Subspace Physics, yadda yadda, and so forth so that they know how the ship works and how to fix it.

Which race is technologically superior in the field of space travel?

The answer: Neither. Vulcans can fly at Warp 5, Humans can fly at Warp 5.

Five is equal to five.

Dark Jaguar said...

To make the point clearer, just because one group discovers a technology FIRST does not mean that they are inherantly smarter. The myriad of possible explanations already discussed explains why.

By the same token, if aliens visit, they aren't necessarily smarter. Their civilization could have been around far longer, and indeed would have to be if they actually reached Earth.

Further, humans alive today make far more advanced stuff than humans, even your vaunted europeans, ever did centuries ago. Does that make the humans today smarter, or just born in a later era with the advantage of all the previously gained knowledge that past humans left behind? Humans haven't appreciably changed their intellectual abilities between now and the 1600 century after all, and if you think they did, I'd like to ask what you base that on.

Americans don't make circuits completely out of whole cloth, they "steal" it from the past, understanding what people have made before, and finding small ways to improve it. I already mentioned that. There is NO difference between what American semiconducter companies are currently doing and what Japanese ones are doing. It's a race, each one trying to out do the other. If Japanese only knew how to imitate and lacked the capacity to actually "understand" what they were working with, we should not expect this. We should expect their technology to have stayed exactly the same, completely unchanging except when some brave smart American company releases a new chip, which all they could do was copy exactly. That doesn't happen. Clearly they are capable of understanding.

In your hypothetical alien example, you would only have a point if, after years of struggling, humans found themselves completely unable to comprehend anything the aliens were trying to teach them. If the humans simply COULD NOT learn, like trying to teach a cat how to assemble an engine, THEN you could say the aliens were clearly intellectually superior. However if the humans caught on pretty much immediatly after some background education on the principles involved, and went on to not only fully understand, but eventually invent some of their own improvements on the designs, then they would have to be considered intellectual equals with the humans merely disadvantaged by time and circumstance. If they could understand it fully, then there would be no reason to doubt that, left on their own, humans would eventually invent those same devices themselves.

Gabriel said...

You would not manage five seconds in the real world, you would cry like babies, here Bronze Dog is a 'god' and can ignore and assign 'punishment' (in terms of mockery) which all his followers blindly follows without any critical thinking. Sheep.

Jaguar, you speak of 'Humans', whiles I speak of the White Race. Certain Humans, such as the Negro Race have lived the same way foor the last 100k years, whiles the White Race has created and made the world a wonderful place to live, you forget this.

I guess Dr. Silverstein, Ph.D, came on to you hard and ruthlessly, you cant even question your own beliefs , you may BELIEVE this, but Reality has nothing to do with belief, it will always be real whatever you believe in sky faries or that niggers are equal to whites.

You are the ones speaking of intelligence, genes etc, I only pointed out facts, like White Societies are SUPERIOR (that means BETTER, Medical care, sicnece etc, You name it, we are BETTER, therefore SUPERIOR, that is what the word refers to) and by default, Negro societies INFERIOR (violence, crimes, backwards, aids, you name it).

If you cant deal with it, or atleast debate it with an none biased mind with the Silverstein Glasses, you are truly deep in the rabbit hole.

Bronze Dog said...

Wow. I take Gabe's analogy down to utter mathematical simplicity (5=5), DJ carries it further, and Gabe explodes into more incoherence than usual, including his standardized lies already pointed out in the main post.



...Who's Dr. Silverstein again?

Bronze Dog said...

Oh, and Gabe, I thought we were talking about Asians for that analogy, not Africans. Why'd you change the subject in your unhinged rant?

Gabriel said...

In what way can/do you use the words Superior/Inferior Bronze Dog?

It is clear that one main problem is that you do not follow the normal use of these words (simlpy put, Inferior means below Superior, as in someone is Inferior to X whom is Superior).

What word would you prefer to use if you do not want/can use the words Superior/Inferior? What words to use to classify things or people that are less sufficient then others?

Bronze Dog said...

Where's your confusion, Gabe?

Back to the Vulcans and humans analogy: Is a Warp 6 starship superior to a Warp 5 starship? Yes.

MWchase said...

Dr Silverstein is the librul professor-type from the Fair And Balanced story on Stormfront.

(Which real world would this be that I can't handle? The one in which I have a 3.9 GPA and a part-time job?)

More posts in interim, so:

What you haven't demonstrated is that differences in accomplishments of a society are related to inherent 'superiority' or 'inferiority' of the people who make it up.

I notice that you still haven't addressed my point that, the way you're using words, Germany stole the technology of the internal combustion engine after the unification.

Gabriel said...

Could you please provide a proper answer to my previous question so we can continue the discussion, It is impossible to speak to you if you use words in a different way then others and you refuse to clarify.

Please provide what words that is equal to you, in use, Superior/Inferior so I can use them as you clearly do not comprehend the original english usage of does words.

1 and 2? Or X and Y? Just give me a why to distinguish something that is less then other. If this can not be done because such things do not exist (for you), please explain why.

Gabriel said...

What you haven't demonstrated is that differences in accomplishments of a society are related to inherent 'superiority' or 'inferiority' of the people who make it up.

Wow, well, let me ask you then, Who or What does the Society consist of?


Also, why would you tell me you got '3.9 GPA'? How is that relevant? A normal analyzes of such side tracking would be that you have low selfesteem, possible very concerned about how people percieve you and you think that telling me/us such irrelevant and pointless thing makes you rise, somehow. Why would I care? Grow up.

Bronze Dog said...

I'm using the sort of definitions just about every English speaker uses. Feel free to pick it out of a dictionary.

The problem with the alien analogy is that you're apparently trying to argue that an alien 5 is superior to a human 5, even though 5=5.

MWchase said...

Oy. I'm looking for metrics to measure my accomplishments and competence, and that's what I come up with, OK. Also, I mentioned it fucking once.

In any case, what you seem to have been saying is that you can just look at someone, and automatically know how competent/moral/whatever they are. What we're saying is, not only is that hard, it's pretty much a fool's errand.

Bronze Dog said...

Oh, and Gabe, it should be obvious from the conversation that I think African nations are inferior. The argument is that I think they're inferior because historical forces ended up giving them inferior resources and a poor infrastructure.

Of course, such circumstances have nothing to do with "race." It's just coincidence that a lot of the best foodstuffs, mineral resources, and arable land for growing civilizations were away from the equator. Sure, I imagine there are some extra forces I've glossed over, but that's probably a quick summary.

We're still forced to guess what you think made them inferior.

Bronze Dog said...

So, even shorter:

Inferior resources in Africa -> slower progress -> Inferior infrastructure -> average African doesn't have access to modern knowledge.

I see no reason to insert race.

DwellerinDarkness said...

I'm afraid my brain broke on Gabe's little story. Read the whole thing, start to finish and the errors are fascinating.

Did you know that the Phoenicians were European? Ignore all that stuff about them speaking Semitic languages, about ancient historians referring to the "dusk-skinned" inhabitants of Tyre and Sidon, they're white. Have to be. They made our alphabet, after all. Never mind that the Vikings couldn't get the hang of a language you couldn't etch until Semites showed them a thing or two.

Did you know that guns were invented by Europeans? Never mind that cannon, gunpowder and the techniques to form metal into a barrel were all developed in Szechuan, they were invented by Europeans.

It's a great big ball of stupid. I just don't have the gumption to go after all of it, and I don't see the point. Gabe, if you can read a sentence of that thing without snickering or feeling pain for the fate of humanity, then I just don't know how to talk to.

Tom Foss said...

BD: I get some whiff of urban legend glurge, but I really don't really have any motivation to investigate, since the story doesn't really relate.

Whiff? Dude, it's "It's a Wonderful Life," but with racist propaganda.

Gabe: That tripe may have made you tear up (I get misty when I watch the actual film every year), but as atheists we have a strong immunity to glurge. There are only so many times you can hear the "and the marine punched the professor in the face for Jesus" or "and that religious student's name was Albert Einstein" before you get inured to the fact that people who don't have evidence or reason to back up their claims write parables instead.

Other then, of course, the white race done most good.

Only if you ignore historical facts.

The food you are eating?

Yeah, food developed by agriculture, which was invented by Egyptians and others in the Middle East and India--they call it the "fertile crescent" for a reason. Incidentally, agriculture developed independently in China, Africa's Sahel Belt, New Guinea, and the Americas. Ever eat corn, Gabe? That's the result of genetic engineering by Native Americans, long before any "whites" set foot in the new world. See also: cocoa.

The society you live in? Yes, you take it all for granted, but because of Clarence George got a chance to see how it would have been without the White man.

"You believe this thing, but my fictional story designed to prove my point proves my point!"

Tom Foss said...

They give us amazing technologies as well as instructions and detailed explanations of how to use it. We then manage, in a couple of years, to enter the Space Age of 'exploring new galaxies' and other Star Wars mumbojumbo (I assume you, as a Lord of the Rings fan enjoy your Trekkie moments)...

Gabe, you're mixing your fandoms--more ignorant stereotyping.

In any case, here's the $10,000 question: once we've learned the ins and outs of the alien technology, Gabe, can we make new things with it and with the knowledge we've gained from it? If we can, then yes, we're equal to the aliens, they just got there first. This is a key point in science, that discoveries eventually get made, regardless of the people involved (which is why we have so many cases throughout history where multiple people independently invented the same things or came up with the same theories at around the same time--Darwin and Wallace, Tesla and Edison, Tesla and Marconi, Newton and Leibniz, etc.). The person who made a discovery first gets some credit, but it doesn't change the fact that other people were already on their way there. If Tesla were never born, we'd still have the radio through Marconi. If Darwin never went on the Beagle, Wallace would have still published on natural selection. That these aliens managed to develop their technology hundreds of years ahead of us doesn't change the fact that we may be well on our way. If, once we learn how that tech works, we can use it, learn from it, and make new technology with that knowledge, then how are we not equal?

But if we can't, if there's some magical barrier about the technology that prevents us from being able to use it or learn and understand how it works so we can make new innovations based on it, then your analogy fails, because that's not what we see in the real world. Yeah, Americans developed cars before the Japanese or Germans, but once we gave those countries the car, they were able to improve on the concepts and designs. The computer is largely a British invention, but the computer you're using is the product of innovations from around the world. Yes, we exported our giant bulky computers with their punch-cards and vacuum tubes around the world. You know who invented the first personal computer? A Vietnamese guy. I guess the Vietnamese are superior to us, since they got to the PC before Steve Jobs.

Wow you are ignorant.

This is like the pot calling the kettle a racist.

As usual, Gabe, you fail at reading. By your logic, homosexuals are superior to straight people, because they came up with the computer first.

You would not manage five seconds in the real world, you would cry like babies, here Bronze Dog is a 'god' and can ignore and assign 'punishment' (in terms of mockery) which all his followers blindly follows without any critical thinking. Sheep.

Blah, blah, blah. Got any content, Gabe?

In what way can/do you use the words Superior/Inferior Bronze Dog?

The same way anyone does: with regard to a set of pre-identified criteria. We've been trying to get you to explain your criteria all along. So far, your attempts have been lacking, and seem to boil down to technology on one side and social issues on the other. I guess you just ignore all the violence, disease, and crime among white people, as well as the technological advances of other races.

Could you please provide a proper answer to my previous question so we can continue the discussion, It is impossible to speak to you if you use words in a different way then others and you refuse to clarify.

What do you mean when you say "white," Gabe?

Jacqueline said...

Gabe shitted:
"To start with, I would like to be completely honest, I cried when I read this, it was a beautiful story."

I cried too Gabe, laughing at the insipid twattish ignorance of the dumbfuckery you just shat upon this fair blog.
You sad little fuckwit. You make Graeme Bird seem like Einstein!

JS:)

Jacqueline said...

Gabe mimicked:
"I strongly recommend you to read up about Evolution and general Biology, read Dawkins new book, it could help you out and take some classes in School."

Thats good advice Gabe. So why don't you follow it?

"Wow you are ignorant."

Posting fascist fantasy masturbation screeds from the Stormfront site shows your credentials as the number one ignoramus woo merchant on this site.
Tell me clownshoes Gabe, do you do kids' parties? My brother needs a clown for his daughter's third birthday.

JS:)

Dark Jaguar said...

Gabe, your statement directed at me is inaccurate. There's not much else I can say because everyone else have been consistantly trying to educate you on the history of the world. Further, it's kinda irrelevent which "group" did one thing or another if every other group can fully comprehend AND IMPROVE on any advancement you care to name. Let me ask you this. What aspect of neurology have you mastered that tells you that someone who fully comprehends the work of someone else and comes up with an innovative improvement or complete reinvention of that same concept is, nevertheless, completely lacking in the ability to come UP with that original idea.

Secondly, do you honestly think we don't exist in the real world? You aren't talking to AI subroutines here, you are talking to some human beings who, outside of this log, actually have lives to get to. What sort of statement is "you would not survive in the real world" anyway? Where else WOULD we live? In what manner do you think we manage to survive?

Thirdly, I don't worship BD at all. The guy makes an online place for people to talk. I came here because I agreed with a lot of his views talking with him on a forum somewhere. I didn't stumble here as some blank slate and get brainwashed into thinking it, I came here BECAUSE I already thought this stuff. I'm not arguing against racism in some attempt to defend "mein furor", I'm arguing against it on account of already, before I even got here, thinking it was completely baseless, stupid, oppressive, and evil for the previous 3 reasons.

Jacqueline said...

Gabe blustered ignorantly:

"This just makes no sense. Lets say an alien race gives us technology we could only dream of, start using it and examining it and learn new things, are we then somehow EQUAL to these Aliens?"


Just to ram home the fact through the layers of idiocy and prejudice you hide behind, Gabe;
the Chinese invented rockets. White westerners came along and effectively understood and modified the technology for their use.
According to your view us white westerners are now INFERIOR to the Chinese.
Comprende vous Gabe? Do you understand what your own words signify in your silly little fantasy?


"You would not manage five seconds in the real world, you would cry like babies,..."


I have lasted more than five months out in the real world, and not once did I cry. In fact I laughed a lot, especially on a beach in Goa, while I was partying.



"..here Bronze Dog is a 'god' and can ignore and assign 'punishment' (in terms of mockery) which all his followers blindly follows without any critical thinking."

Bronze Dog is a mighty sexy guy, but he is no deity. Any mockery you get from him, or any other sexy skeptic on this site, is due to you being an ignoramus with delusions of grandeur.

"Sheep."

It is strange that these ungulates bite like wolves when you try to push your insipid brand of dewey eyed racist nonsense on this fair blog.
You are more of a sheep gabe. Come to think of it you are more like a frightened gerbil, running away from pertinent questions with evasions and irrelevant fascist wankfantasies.
Where is your much vaunted superiority now Gabe?

"No tengo una!" Is that your reply Gabe?

JS;)

MWchase said...

"You aren't talking to AI subroutines here"

Speak for yourself, because I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hara-Kiri Rock.

Random references to games I haven't played aside...

Tom: "By your logic, homosexuals are superior to straight people, because they came up with the computer first."

Saying that Alan Turing 'invented' the computer is a bit iffy, so unless you were referring to someone else... I mean, his contributions to theory were immense, but I don't think any serious work today is done with Turing machines, since they're a pain to work with. Basically, Turing's contribution was inventing a bunch of the conceptual tools that people use when designing or programming computers.

Dweller in Darkness said...

MWChase, if white people invented the handgun, than Alan Turing not only invented the computer, he birthed it from his thigh like Pallas Athena spurting forth from mighty Zeus.

chakatfirepaw said...

So Gabe:

Are you going to answer the question, or are you going to keep hiding from it like a coward?

Just what do you mean when you say white?

Rick said...

Ok, I have no idea why Blogger grabbed that name rather than the one it is supposed to display.

Bronze Dog said...

I still think it's rather funny that Gabe's tales and analogies essentially involve throwing race out of the equation.

So far, about all I see him doing is taking our explanations and trying to force irrelevant, coincidental race labels onto the process.

I'm still waiting to hear what precisely makes a person "white" and how "whiteness" contributes to scientific discovery.

Dark Jaguar said...

Well remember to give some credit to Babbage and Lovelace. They did a lot of work with computer theory back when all they had was "analytical engines" made of gear boxes.

Interesting note, I love the Syberia games with the concept of a spring powered robot (and train, and airship, and...).

Tom Foss said...

Fair enough regarding Turing--I'm not a computer scientist. As with most things, it's difficult to credit any one person with the invention, since the process is almost always more complicated than that.

It also brings up another point that undermines Gabe's alien analogy: scientific progress and discovery are partly driven by technology. We couldn't develop the cell theory until We had the microscope, we couldn't confirm the Standard Model until we had particle accelerators. New technologies open up new avenues of exploration and understanding, which in turn lead to more technological advancements. If aliens gave us new technologies that we could use and understand, it'd be like giving a child a microscope. With the new tool, new understanding is possible.

Bronze Dog said...

And that's another reason Gabe's alien analogy proves our point.

MarkCC said...

Hey Gabe, am I white?

Every one of my ancestors for as far back as anyone knows were European. The most recent ones were from Latvia. Am I white?

My father was an American soldier in a white unit during WW2. Was he white?

Everyone who looks at me would immediately conclude that I'm white. Pale skin, blue eyes, medium-brown hair. Am I white?

I'm also Jewish. Does that change it?

Why and how?

Jacqueline said...

Over here in the UK we've had some furore over British National Party leader Nick "total fascist" Griffin being allowed on the politcal programme Question time:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nft24/Question_Time_22_10_2009/


I was amazed at how similar his stupidity is to the Gerbil's (Gabriel).
Griffin thinks that the UK has had a core of indigenous white folks living in it since the ice age ended, that didn't interbreed with all the other groups that set up shop in Britain. Griffin also prevaricates in an attempt to distract attention from his glaring stupidity. Plus he tries to worm out of what he is on record as saying. Just like our resident Gerbil.
Fascist wankers seem all the same the world over. They're pathetic people.

JS:)

Dark Jaguar said...

Wow. America sure has it's stupid, and it's share of racists, but no racists here are quite as high profile as that guy appears to be. If they are higher up, they know to keep it a secret, and those racists in the media are of the sort that swear up and down to not really be racist, but let certain presumptions slip now and again that they just don't "see" as racist because they don't notice the presumptions they make.

That guy though? Yeah, he's way beyond that "mild" racism, much more like Gabe the full blown racist we have here.

Gabe, I know you will argue you aren't a "racist" but when you speak of one group "corrupting" another with it's influence and being inherantly inferior in some unspecified intellectual capacity, that's the very definition of racism. You may not be demanding internment camps or public lyncings just yet, and you may even claim to care about them, but it's still racism.

Dark Jaguar said...

Or, giving an adult a microscope who simply had a poor education growing up that finally got the opportunity to revolutionize everything they knew by simply getting a major education. That happens pretty often right here on earth without aliens getting involved.

Dark Jaguar said...

As that comment alone is confusing, let me clarify that the above was a respone to Tom Foss.

Jacqueline said...

In 1996 Nick "Innsmouth Look" Griffin said:

“We must preserve the white race, because it has been responsible for all the good things in civilisation."

Now in 2009 the Gerbil is coming out with similar sentiments.
No wonder Gerbil thinks that Bronze is some kind of fascist fuhrer that we have to obey like sheep. Gerbil is reading from the same book as Griffin. Mein Kampf. Gerbil can only see leaders and followers. Black and white.


JS:)

Gabriel said...

If aliens gave us new technologies that we could use and understand, it'd be like giving a child a microscope. With the new tool, new understanding is possible.

And yet, your friends here claim they would be equal to the Aliens from the get go, thankyou for proving my points.

Knowling less, less understanding, less, less Quality, les Performance, ie Inferior. That is, Aliens are by default Superior (in this scenario). That The humans would EVENTUALLY become equal is irrelevant, as well as the Alien themselves would continue their knowledge and expand on it, ad infinitum.

You made my point, but no doubt Bronze and the rest have already decided, Aliens are Equal to Man anyway, even when they are better (superior), the word Superior has no meaning, I guess that is what Bronze dog wants.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

And yet, your friends here claim they would be equal to the Aliens from the get go, thankyou for proving my points.

Where the hell did you get that idea? It'd take time for obvious reasons.

Knowling less, less understanding, less, less Quality, les Performance, ie Inferior. That is, Aliens are by default Superior (in this scenario). That The humans would EVENTUALLY become equal is irrelevant, as well as the Alien themselves would continue their knowledge and expand on it, ad infinitum.

Exactly. It's just a matter of resources, infrastructure, and education. That's exactly what we're saying. What baffles me is where race and genetic superiority come into play.

You made my point, but no doubt Bronze and the rest have already decided, Aliens are Equal to Man anyway, even when they are better (superior), the word Superior has no meaning, I guess that is what Bronze dog wants.

So... Your point is that race played absolutely no role in determining which group is superior?

MWchase said...

Okay, so there is, to start with, a gap. I think we all agree with that.

I'm pretty sure our point is that a rising tide lifts all ships, in terms of science and technology. And when you have a goal to work toward, you make fewer false starts.

Or are you saying, for example, that reverse engineering military technology in wartime is useless, since they'll have moved on to something else by the time you catch up?

In addition, technology is not a scalar quantity. One culture could excel at shipbuilding, while another excels at metallurgy. All else being equal, which one is superior? This isn't an argument against superiority as an idea, but you have to realize that the criteria we seem to be using have a degree of fuzziness.

Gabriel said...

As someone said, in some other thread I think, yes, I am a 'racist', the problem I have with using that word is it has a conveyances of negativity today, sadly.

You do not hear people talk negatively about peopel who think that various Dog races are inferior to others, Why? We do not even have a word for it, and that is my point, todays 'PC' attitude has made it negative to be a Racist, or someone accepting Truth and Reality, so I prefer not using the word.


Also, as it seems be have foreign visitors here (Hey Bronze Dog, I guess your foreign followers here as as far you come from leaving your nation, must be very scary hearing foreigners talk, does scary scary people) I thought I would point out some things regarding Europe.

As I lived in Britain (both Oxford and over at the Channel Islands, the two biggest ones and the smallest one) and other parts of Europe, they have it much worse then we Americans do. We can express our disgust towards the scum we have, we can speak about the negros and spics destroying our nations, English or Germans or French CAN NOT.

It is DANGEROUS for a White man to point out that negros kill and rape woman, they get called RACIST and can even get killed or harmed by other negros or spics, it is 'wrong' to condemn bad people in Europe, sure, he is a murdering rapist, but he is equal to a loving white woman, never done any rime, give plenty to charity and help anyone she can, actually, the Negro would be treated better if it comes to judicial course, as we cant insult the negroid, that would be bad.

So I do feel sorry for the Aryans in Europe and they will go down, just as America is losing power and chaos is looming because of the scum we allow to destroy our nation.

Its simple not 'PC'...

Gabriel said...

Added: Bronze, I apologize for the quick comment about you never travelling, I understand it is both because of xenophobia, which I have many fellow americans I can see the same attitude in, and the fact you can not afford it.

Normally, I would simple suggest you get a job and try saving some money, but realizing you would never go abroad anyway, being dangerous and all, what is the point. I would just like you to travel a bit and see WHY America is so Great rather then just BELIEVING it is because of the news of Wikipedia, you know, some EXPERIENCE of LIFE.

But its scary, I know.

Bronze Dog said...

Technology races are inherently circumstantial.

Racial traits are inherent, unless you're going to argue that a person can change race.

The people of first world nations are circumstantially superior to third world nations. Remove or equalize all those circumstances, and they have no inherent edge, such as racial advantages.

That's why your analogy is falling so utterly flat, Gabe. You're describing aliens who have no inherent superiority, just a circumstantial one that can be overcome, and after teaching humans everything they know, that circumstantial advantage vanishes.

So, Gabe: What is race, and what does it have to do with your analogy?

Jacqueline said...

Gerbil squeeked:

"As I lived in Britain (both Oxford and over at the Channel Islands, the two biggest ones and the smallest one) and other parts of Europe, they have it much worse then we Americans do. We can express our disgust towards the scum we have, we can speak about the negros and spics destroying our nations, English or Germans or French CAN NOT."


As a resident of the UK, I can say that expressing narrowly extremist racist viewpoints does tend to upset decent people. I know that the Germans are very sensitive when it comes to sad Nazi sympathizers spouting their delusions, and tend to crack down on their incitements to racial hatred. As for France, right wing politicians can spout racist shit and the media reports it without censorship.


"It is DANGEROUS for a White man to point out that negros kill and rape woman, they get called RACIST and can even get killed or harmed by other negros or spics.."

Gerbil forgets that white men rape women too, so why would you only comment on rapes by black men unless you delusionally believed that white folks were some lawful good race from a D&D manual?


". it is 'wrong' to condemn bad people in Europe"

There the Gerbil goes again. He should have written "it is wrong to condemn the chaotic evil Orcs". More deluded D&D black and white racist stupidity. That is not the real world.

"..sure, he is a murdering rapist, but he is equal to a loving WHITE woman, never done any rime (sic), give plenty to charity and help anyone she can, actually, the Negro would be treated better if it comes to judicial course, as we cant insult the negroid, that would be bad."

So the Gerbil isn't bothered about rapes by white men against white, or black women. His prejudices totally destroy any logic and warp any perceptions he has.


"So I do feel sorry for the Aryans in Europe and they will go down, just as America is losing power and chaos is looming because of the scum we allow to destroy our nation."

Gerbil, they're not Aryans. They're sadly deluded buffoons that have read too much of Mein Dumbkopf, and think they're some kind of supermen.

"Its simple not 'PC'..."

Political correctness has nothing to do with it. Racist hatemongering is reviled by most civilized folk, but Gerbil can't see through his Hitler tinted special issue SS spectacles.

JS:)

Jacqueline said...

Gerbil squeeked: ( or was it that his exercise wheel needs oiling?)

"Normally, I would simple suggest you get a job and try saving some money, but realizing you would never go abroad anyway, being dangerous and all, what is the point. I would just like you to travel a bit and see WHY America is so Great rather then just BELIEVING it is because of the news of Wikipedia, you know, some EXPERIENCE of LIFE."


Yeah Bronze you get out and travel the world. Then Gerbil will run away from your posts like he does with mine, because his "world traveller" advantage evaporates.

"But its scary, I know."
Got that right Gerbil. You're so scared of me that you run away from my questions. Superiority des ka?


"No tengo una!" Is that still your reply cabron?


JS;)

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

I would just like you to travel a bit and see WHY America is so Great rather then just BELIEVING it is because of the news of Wikipedia, you know, some EXPERIENCE of LIFE.

Your desperation is showing, again. Why do you keep going on about Wikipedia?

As for why America's great, you have yet to make any connection to race. You make analogies that don't have race as a factor, conform closely to our expectations, and ramble on about how allegedly our position is your point.

Quite frankly, you strike me as quite out of touch with the fundamental nature of the US, like the average neocon is.

As for all the wonderful sciency things the US does, you openly reject the most basic principles of science and logic. Why? I don't know.

Maybe you think science just happens like in videogames. "Let's give our scientists a bunch of beaker icons for researching Bridge Building so that someday we may discover The Railroad."

Gabriel said...

Bronze Dog, it seems you decided to choose
the wrong way of looking at reality, so I
thought we do what we do with Creationists,
whom also deny the real world, and take
two simple options, one is the realworld,
the other one is fiction/fantasy, and we,
and most importantly, You, will see what
and how you truly see the world.

Let us take America, the Greatest nation
the world has ever seen, when our European
ancestors wanted to create a new world, they
succeeded indeed. Then we take an average
African nation, say Congo, or maybe Zimbabwe,
or really, whatever nation you prefer in Africa.

Now we have two ways to go with this, Either
you can say that Congo, Zimbabwe is equal to
America, or you can admit that United State of
America is not only far superior, but Zimbabwe
is a backwards thirdworld nation that makes
a comparison to America silly.

So, to avoid two seperate 'evolutionary' lines
here, I will simply pretend that you do accept
that America is superior, I truly hope you
accept that, even if it hurts to accept such
obvious facts.


Now, you could obviously claim that the third
world nation of Zimbabwe, Congo etc are indeed
better or equal to America and ignore my entire
post, would make sense from your side, of course,
that makes the word superior pointless, the use
here is better, higher quality, better performance,
etc. America is the wealthiest nation on the
planet, Americans live a life most of the world
envy, we have a surplus of everything from
technology to medical care to Food. That is what
I mean with superior, Congo or Zimbabwe can hardly
feed itself, nor do we even want to mention
anything else about the countries poor infrastructure.

So lets Continue....

America was created by white men whom wanted to
make something grand, they wanted to make an amazing
nation based on White mens moral. United States
rapidly became the worlds most advanced nation and
the envy of the world as well as the police of
the world needing to help and assist other nations
that could not handle themselves and keep peace.

Congo had not had much stability during its existence,
nor Zimbabwe or the other negro nations, quite recently
Zimbabwe and Zambia had alot of turmoil. Historically
when whites have been involved with either helping
or controlling the various nations in Africa, such
as the Dutch colonies or British, the countries have
become stable and prosperous, as an example (outside of
Africa) Indonesia would most likely have been one of the
wealthiest nations in Asia if they had not been 'liberated'
from the Dutch, an interesting fact I asked an educated
Indonesian about when they celebrated Independence,
I asked him, Why are they celebrating something that
made Indonesia a worse place to live? Indonesia is
today an extremely corrupt and by most standard, a
horrible place to have dealing with, whiles if the
Dutch controlled it, similar to Singapore would have
become enormously wealthy and powerful because of
the resources they had and the White mans help. Sorry,
going of the track here....

You will of course claim that it is a mere coincidence
that Negro's are in Congo, Whites in America, and it
is as relevant as rainy weather versus Sunny made Britain
enormously powerful and Mexico poor, correct? Now is
it worth pointing out that most of the problems and
the majority of crime in America does, surprise surprise,
come from the Negros, whom have the highest crime rate,
and the spics. Similar, if you look at nations like Norway
or Sweden whom have almost utopian societies because of
the few people living there (and therefore less negative
mixture), but the crime rate is starting to get higher
with more rapes and murders with the large amount of muslims
they allow in. No, of course not, it is not related, just
as the Africans in France whom create riots, murder and
rape, burn cars, you name it, is in no way related to
being a Negro, even when the whites compared to them do
not do this.

Gabriel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gabriel said...

I do not know how you want to measure, but I do not think
it would matter, your instinctual way of never blaming
what is relevant and give excuses will prevent you from
actually figure out a way of learning why this is. The
French know what I talk about, but they are not allowed
to talk about it, The English know what I mean, not allowed
to point out that the muslim community are more violent
and criminal then others, as then they get marked as a
"racist", and the Scandinavians know, whom hardly have
any violence at all, and now getting a flood of murder,
rapes and problems with the huge amount of muslims entering
their nations, and none of them are allowed to point it
out, because then they get pointed out as a RACIST, maybe
get fired and cant be in the community they live in, it
is simple not "PC".

But you wouldn't know about that, would you? Never been
anywhere.

Rick said...

So Gabe:

Exactly who do you mean when you say white?


Or are you going to simply continue with your smokescreen digressions to hide from the fact that you are unable to answer such a simple and basic question?

MWchase said...

Gabe, when you've got ten minutes, watch this. The basic point of it is that many 'third-world' nations are just a couple centuries behind 'first-world' nations.

This shows two things: given the degree of genetic admixture in the human population, speaking of a few centuries worth of evolution is patently ridiculous. The other thing is, they are advancing in a similar fashion to the first-world countries, back when they were in that position. In essence, to the degree that genes affect societal advancement, they do it in a uniform fashion.

I kind of skimmed over those last few comments, but here's something I want to ask:

"your instinctual way of never blaming what is relevant"

Melanin concentration in the skin is relevant to intelligence, ingenuity, and morality?

Does that mean that I got dumber and less moral when I went to Greece the summer before last, and managed to tan so much that I stopped burning?

Gabriel said...

Rick, read the link provided earlier, Just try to finish it.

With love.
Gabe.

MWchase said...

Gabe, your link was just It's a Wonderful Life, except everyone is a racist.

Yes, including Dr.Gold^H^H^H^HSilverstein. Whitewashing of any kind is antithetical to good history.

Gabriel said...

Melanin concentration in the skin is relevant to intelligence, ingenuity, and morality?

Wow you are ignorant. You seem to think that if you put a White man and a Negro next to eachother and remove their color, You wont see a difference, WOW I say...

Once again, Travel a bit, Go to Africa or hell down to the nearest negro ghetto, maybe you wil notice that there is a slight differnce other then, youknow, just the color. Actually, you sound racist (in a negative way) when saying the only difference between a white and negro is color, Wow you must be ignorant, once again, WOW!!!

Gabriel said...

That link was funny, especially considerting its a WHITE MAN that proposes the ideas.

It would be better if pointing out that negros are poor and whites not as a good visual. They need to know their place, just as dogs and other lower mammals know.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

Wow you are ignorant. You seem to think that if you put a White man and a Negro next to eachother and remove their color, You wont see a difference, WOW I say...

Oh, so it's the curly hair conducive to afros, the slight difference in femur curves, etcetera?

Just what the hell do you mean by "race"? What's the key difference between a black and a white person if they're otherwise identical?

Once again, Travel a bit, Go to Africa or hell down to the nearest negro ghetto, maybe you wil notice that there is a slight differnce other then, youknow, just the color. Actually, you sound racist (in a negative way) when saying the only difference between a white and negro is color, Wow you must be ignorant, once again, WOW!!!

Except, you know, that those differences shrink when economic prosperity is evened out. Oh, and if you ignore all the dumb rednecks in the trailer parks. I live in Texas, you know, Gabe. There are a LOT of dumb anti-intellectual white people you can't whitewash away with your creative selection effects.

I can't see any meaningful difference between me and the blacks in my economic level. I can't see any meaningful difference between poor blacks and poor whites. I can't see any difference between rich blacks and rich whites.

The only way you've been able to talk about any difference is to avoid comparing apples to apples and sticking your fingers in your ears whenever we ask for clarification.

You still haven't explained the mechanism of how "race" affects a person. All you can do is flail around for subject changes, fairy tales that have nothing to do with our views (and masturbate as your tale defeats a straw-filled opponent), prove our points with badly constructed analogies, and eternally dodge the most basic of questions.

Apparently asking you to define your gibberish in the most basic of terms is simply too hard for you.

Is "race" a form of biological "hardware"? Is it "software" like an idea stored inside a person's neural connections? What?

Rick said...

Gabe: Stop avoiding the question, either answer it or admit that you can't.

Hiding behind a racist equivalent to a Chick tract posted on a white supremacist site run by a Nazi isn't answering the question. Especially when it _CONTRADICTS_ exclusions you have made.

I want to know what _YOU_ mean when you say white. If you really want to include the people of North Africa and all of Europe, then you have to also include Hispanics, (which you clearly do not).

Jacqueline said...

Gerbriel squeeked:

"But you wouldn't know about that, would you? Never been
anywhere."

Gerbriel is hiding behind his "world traveller" shield increasingly, in a cowardly attempt to not answer the questions put to him. Change the freakin' script gerbil boy!


"The English know what I mean, not allowed
to point out that the muslim community are more violent
and criminal then others, as then they get marked as a
"racist".."


You have that topsy turvey Gerbriel. It is the racists that are more violent and criminal. I live with muslim neighbours all around me. I've never seen any violence or criminality from any of them, after nine years of living in this area.


"Once again, Travel a bit.."

I have but so what? It doesn't make you magically above everyone else. Gerbriel the "superior highly intellectual" redneck has trouble showing that he has read The Greatest Show on Earth. Proof enough of his lack of superior quality.


" Actually, you sound racist (in a negative way) when saying the only difference between a white and negro is color..."

Gerbriel. You're fucked in the head. I'm writing that in a negative way,OK?

".. Wow you must be ignorant, once again, WOW!!!"


Gerbriel, you must be telepathic! Every time I read your posts those very words go through my mind!

JS:)

MarkCC said...

Gabe:

Come on, answer a simple question for us: Am I white?

There's a reason I keep answering this: because you *can't* define white in any meaningful genetic way that excludes Jews - but schmucks like you constantly insist that Jews aren't white. Your whole belief system is built around the idea that there is a meaningful genetic difference between "white" and "not white" - but there is no such distinction in reality. So you weasel, and evade - because you *believe* that there must be. But you can't identify it, describe it, or define it.

Jacqueline said...

MarkCC said...
"Gabe:
Come on, answer a simple question for us: Am I white?"



Come on everyone, we're scaring the poor little gerbil boy with our questions. He's so shy that he is only responding to Bronze Dog, and even then he won't make eye contact.
So leave off our little racist gerbil, or you just might see him cry!


JS:)

Bronze Dog said...

Big thing in science: Prior plausibility. One thing that would really get me thinking is some sort of mechanism connecting "race" with some specific sort of advantage or disadvantage.

But Gabe can't do that. With all his waffling, I can't even be sure he thinks it's genetic. His talk of it being "diluted" suggests it's not genetic, since...

Morbo: GENES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

...Thank you, Morbo. One possibility is that Gabe is positing an as yet unknown mechanism of heredity that is continuous, of which "race" is a part.

His alien analogy went way off track, and seems to suggest to me yet another hypothesis that race is nothing but an arbitrary convenience label applied after the fact: You've got two groups made unequal by circumstance, so you label them according to some irrelevant difference and act as if that difference is important.

So, Gabe, if race isn't one of these contradictory things, what is it?

Gabriel said...

"So what is white?"


This question is rather like asking
when a boy becomes an old man, just
as aging our Evolution does not have
sections to it but a rather fluent
current that continues forever.


A good response to this could be me
asking when we turned Human, which is
equal in all its aspects. Most people,
Creationist and Evolutionist alike
think that Evolution is a system of
progress, One, Two, Three and so on,
and we can define when someone is a
Human, when a dinosaur became a
bird and so on.

No, this is a matter of perception
and regarding the human species, it is
practically impossible, you could try
to reach a consensus but most scientist
would have various different opinions
about it that it would be very hard, some
may include in-between homo erectus, other
in-between sapiens and so on, we simple
can not classify it because of the vast
number (unlimited) of changes and even
with our small fossil record, we can not
make an easy destinction, you need to
understand this, you need to understand
how Evolution works.



“When did we become white?” is just as
as hard as to ask when a child becoms an
adult, and many overlappings may ocur if
a response is to be given, there is no
magic date, such as the 18th or 21th birthday.
Even Richard Dawkins mentioned this in
The Greatest Show on Earth, I book I clearly
was the first to read in this forum, and
which most seemingly haven't read yet. I
recommend it.

You need to understand this if I am to
educate you about these things. As I pointed out,
it is not only a a rather common occurance,
but almost universal that people, educated
people, believe that Evolution is a easy
marking system that tells you when you are
Human. When did Australopithecus become
Homo erectus? When did Homo erectus become
Homo sapien? and the list goes on, you need to
throw away your glasses of prejudice and look at
the real world and accept that "pc' does
not suit if you want to understand our
evolution completely.

Negroids whom continued to evolve separately
from us, but seem to have hit a bottle neck after
our ancestors, the ones becoming white, asians etc,
left. Negroids never became as skilled and innovative
as White man nor their Asian brothers, they continued
their lives on the savanna, creating nothing and becoming
nothing. The rest of humanity evolved in what
we would today call, Upwards manner, we became more
intelligent, more aware and more advanced, so
the negriods you see today are more closely
related to our Ancestoral Apes then say White
man because they changed and evovled very little
compared to us, whom became civilized and
advanced, you could say that the Africans of today
are so called "living fossils" of our ancestral past.

Once again, to ask 'When did man become White'
is equal to asking when a child became an old
man or when humans becmame human, it shows a
lack of understanding what Evolution is and
how it works, Either way, I do not know if
Bronze Dog, or the rest of the flock here can
handle the facts, does spectacles that some professor
or some tv show or other event gave you have started to take root, and you do not seem to be able to look in
any other direction outside of the box, You
need to be non biased if you are going to deal
with real facts and figures and enjoy science.

MWchase said...

How in the name of Andrew Schlafly* can the population of Africa be "bottlenecked" genetically, when they have more genetic diversity than any other branch of humanity? How can we have 'evolved beyond them' if Europeans and Africans are the most closely related geographical groupings of humanity?

Unless you can substantiate your claims, they are nothing more than words.

*I decided to get creative with my... whichever kind of thing that is.

Bronze Dog said...

So, to summarize, "It's fuzzy." Of course, I don't see what "when" has to do with this, we're talking about now.

Negroids whom continued to evolve separately from us, but seem to have hit a bottle neck after our ancestors, the ones becoming white, asians etc, left. Negroids never became as skilled and innovative as White man nor their Asian brothers, they continued their lives on the savanna, creating nothing and becoming nothing. The rest of humanity evolved in what we would today call, Upwards manner, we became more intelligent, more aware and more advanced, so the negriods you see today are more closely related to our Ancestoral Apes then say White man because they changed and evovled very little compared to us, whom became civilized and advanced, you could say that the Africans of today are so called "living fossils" of our ancestral past.

Except, last time anyone checked, we're still nearly identical genetically speaking, since we only had the geological blink of an eye to become civilized.

Oh, and evolution doesn't work that way.

1. There's no such thing as "more evolved." Unless you're going to argue that Africans have been using cloning technology in place of sex, they've been continuing in evolution during that eyeblink.

2. Africans are the most genetically diverse group of humans, because they haven't had genetic bottlenecks that come with migration.

3. You haven't been able to prove that they have inferior hardware, especially since you have to retreat to comparisons between groups with vast cultural, economic, and resource-based differences whenever we try to compare apples to apples.

So far, all you've been able to invoke for the sake of prior plausibility is hoping that we'll believe in some magical Platonic force of progress.

Jimmy Blue said...

Can.No. Longer. Resist. Urge. To. Respond.

Racist Tool said:

As I lived in Britain (both Oxford and over at the Channel Islands, the two biggest ones and the smallest one) and other parts of Europe, they have it much worse then we Americans do. We can express our disgust towards the scum we have, we can speak about the negros and spics destroying our nations, English or Germans or French CAN NOT.

Oh fuck off you ignorant lying twat.

I was born in the UK and lived in the UK for 29 years and this doesn't even come close to being a half-arsed stereotyped comic book misrepresentation of a fictional version of the UK. You can express your views about people quite freely in the UK, the problem for you Racist Tool is that almost everyone would laugh at you because they would recognise it for what it is.

Ridicule of and disdain for your opinion has nothing to do with censorship of your opinion. For instance, Nick Griffin of the BNP was just recently on the BBC's Question Time despite quite obviously being a racist moron.

So much for your vaunted world knowledge - you claim to have visited the UK and yet it seems you completely ignored it. What a surprise - you visited a place and only managed to see as far as the end of your nose.

Gabriel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gabriel said...

So much for your vaunted world knowledge - you claim to have visited the UK and yet it seems you completely ignored it. What a surprise - you visited a place and only managed to see as far as the end of your nose.

No young padawan, I lived in the UK, I stated where in previous posts.

Rick said...

Gabe, you still haven't answered the basic question:

What do you mean when you say white?

Either answer the question, or concede that you cannot.

Dunc said...

No young padawan, I lived in the UK, I stated where in previous posts.

I've lived in the UK all my life, and I can conclusively state that you're full of shit.

MWchase said...

"I can conclusively state that you're full of shit."

The philosophy of science, history, genetics... at least he's consistent.

Jacqueline said...

Gerbriel squeeked:


"A good response to this could be me
asking when we turned Human"

No it isn't a good response unless you're trying to evade peoples' questions.
" Most people,
Creationist and Evolutionist alike
think that Evolution is a system of
progress, One, Two, Three and so on,
and we can define when someone is a
Human, when a dinosaur became a
bird and so on."


Your idea of evolution is at odds with Richard Dawkins' knowledge of the process. If you have read his book you certainly didn't understand any of it.

"Even Richard Dawkins mentioned this in
The Greatest Show on Earth, I book I clearly
was the first to read in this forum, and
which most seemingly haven't read yet. I
recommend it."

Wrong. But whoever read it first doesn't get a prize.
Like I said earlier, if you've actually read the book you show no sign of comprehending what you've read.
The rest of your post is mere prevarication, as per usual.

JS:)

MarkCC said...

Gabe:

You're still avoiding my question. But that's OK; I'm nothing if not persistent.

Am I white?

You, and the pathetic slugs like you, want to take credit for everything that you believe white people have done. But you can't actually *define* whiteness.

Just to pick on two groups that are particularly close to my heart, both Jews and Chinese have been hugely influential in developing the ideas and technologies that you take credit for as part of the "white" world.

(Of course, that's part of why people like you hate Jews so much, isn't it - we're a group that culturally values education and achievement, and *you can't recognize us* unless we tell you who we are. If you saw me on the street, you'd assume I was "white". But I'm really one of those dirty joooooos that scare you so much. But you can't tell, and you can't define your wondrous whiteness in a way that matches your prejudice.)

Jacqueline said...

Dunc said...

"I've lived in the UK all my life, and I can conclusively state that you're full of shit."


Come on Dunc, you can hardly expect gerbil boy to give the kind of description of British life that we live. After all we're dealing with a person that has a massive inferiority complex, and has to believes in a conspiracy by the "black freemasons" to give him and his fellow rednecks AIDS.
We're hardly gonna get anything remotely resembling our daily experience of life in the UK from Gerbriel.
JS:)

Bronze Dog said...

I find it funny that Gabe's trying to invoke the sorcery of "progressive evolution" or whatever you want to call it.

Evolution is just the process of some traits surviving if they're beneficial at the moment, under existing circumstances. And it's hardly even relevant on the timescales we're talking about.

Of course, I have no trouble imagining he's unable to give a reason why migrating out of Africa would cause big brain genes or whatever he believes in to be more favored than they are in Africa.

Gabriel said...

ed the difficulty in speaking of white or none white, Ironically, Bronze dog seem to IGNORE my response when i explained basic Evolution to him.

Just as Richard Dawkins said, there is no fine line between Human and none human, It is just like asking when does a child become an old man, it ignores the fact of Evolution.

I have no idea if you are White Rick, how would I, I never met you, I dont know your ancestors, and most likely you would be lying anyway as I seen most people do, Hell, when I point out I read Richard Dawkins new book, the first thing I get, automatically (from people who hve not read it) YOU ARE LNG ITS NOT TRUE, perhasps jealousy?

Who knows, inferiority complex it seems, either way. I already given a good response to why it is hard to explain when certain people "became" White, especially since the timeline is rather long, this question can only come if you lack basic understanding of Evolution, IT IS NOT a 1 2 3 4 counting system, its more of a morphed 1234 no specific destictions between the races until you come afterwards.

Read Dawkins book, HE explains this himself as refering to Creationist who think there is a "missing link" to everything, there would be UNLIMITED links as there is no goalpost, Why do you think we do not mark the species we found as "almost Humans" or "not really human yet"? Because we need to give names to it and simple can not do that, It is simple not allowed by the system of taxonomi we use, cheezes christ I shouldn´t have to explain all this to you, you are suppose to know this.

Now Dog, are you going to give a proper RESPONSE, or not? I guess not, you rather run away ignoring it, man I would like to met your kind in real life, dont you see how pathetic you are¿

Bronze Dog said...

Perhaps you'd get a better response from me if you'd answer some simple questions instead of hiding behind fuzziness of borders I never asked about. Yes, evolution has some fuzzy lines because, over long periods of time, "species" is a moving target. I'm not asking about those old periods of time, I'm asking for a snapshot of today.

I'm not asking when they became white, but what makes a person white right now.

I've been having trouble getting you to even say if it's a genetic thing or not.

Bronze Dog said...

Another thing: Doesn't it seem contradictory to say that race is a subtle, nuanced thing that's hard to describe and to say that it's obvious enough for you to be able to determine someone's race just by looking at them?

djfav said...

Congratulations, Gabe! You have defeated your own argument. The world is not simply black and white, as it were. Just shades of gray.

Nice work.

The next step is to stop being such a racist douchebag.

Gabriel said...

Bronze Dog, your skill in debate is truly awesome, the "I am right, you are wrong" tactic is indeed skilled and impressive.

As you seem to afraid of actual debate I take it you can't handle to defend your position, I given posts after posts (several pages longer then yours) and the response I get, is in a nutshell, "I am right, you are wrong, lalalla", thats just sad. And the rest of your sheep gives pretty much the same and calls me an asshole or similar, very mature and educated.

To bad you cant handle a real serious debate and you run away like that with all the respect I given you.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

Bronze Dog, your skill in debate is truly awesome, the "I am right, you are wrong" tactic is indeed skilled and impressive.

Talk about projection.

You don't acknowledge the existence of logical fallacies. You don't acknowledge the philosophy of science and how you've been going directly against it. You argue that common knowledge evolution is false.

As you seem to afraid of actual debate I take it you can't handle to defend your position, I given posts after posts (several pages longer then yours) and the response I get, is in a nutshell, "I am right, you are wrong, lalalla", thats just sad. And the rest of your sheep gives pretty much the same and calls me an asshole or similar, very mature and educated.

To bad you cant handle a real serious debate and you run away like that with all the respect I given you.


1. Shifting the burden of proof onto the skeptic is a logical fallacy. This is supposed to be common knowledge. You're the advocate for this magical "race" thing, and yet you cannot even talk about it in some meaningful way. That's probably why you won't commit to even saying it's genetic.

2. I'm not taking a position to defend, and even if I did, you probably wouldn't know what it was anyway, given your fairytale derail on that Silverstein straw man. I even gave you a chance to take on "I don't know" as my position and you chickened out.

3. If anyone's been doing the "I'm right, you're wrong" style of argument, it's you! You talk about your travel experience as if you were deified beyond normal human failings. You use it as an excuse to claim that you're beyond scientific inquiry and criticism.

4. You compulsively change subjects whenever the heat's on.

5. You're functionally illiterate, anyway: You can't even understand our criticisms.

Rick said...

Gabe, how about answering my question? Or would you prefer to continue to hide from it?

I have no idea if you are White Rick

When did I ask you if I am white?

I asked you what you mean by white.

I already given a good response to why it is hard to explain when certain people "became" White

When did anyone ask you when whites came into existence?

I asked you what you mean by white.


I've even said that you can give an empirical definition by identifying groups that are, or are not, white. You wouldn't even need to provide an analytical definition, which should make the question trivial. Even more trivial in that I gave you a list of European and Mediterranean groupings to work from.

If the edges are fuzzy, then say that they are fuzzy, but you should certainly be able to give bounds to that fuzziness. Much like how some real world national borders are, or were, defined by noting which geographic features belong to each nation and saying that the border is about half-way between them.

Jacqueline said...

Gerbriel, stop squeeking at straw men and pay attention to the questions you've been asked!
If you can't answer the questions being put to you without actively misconstruing them, in an attempt to squirm away from the fact that your prejudices are baseless, then I suggest that you bow out of the debate. Or if you wish to continue you can always say "God did it!" and then smugly sit back, safe in the comfort of your Nazi wankfantasy.

JS:)

djfav said...

Nice projection, Gabe. Keep up the good work.

Bronze Dog said...

Another thing that needs to be said: Gabe, stop telling me to travel, as if subjective experience is superior to the scientific method.

I have biases like everyone else, and going on a trip that would maximize the influence of my biases is hardly going to change my mind. The fact that you think personal experience is objective shows just how poorly you understand what's going on in this argument, as well as how poorly you understand the principles of science.

I trust cold, hard data gathered through rigorous means more than I do casual, lazy observation, especially if I'm the one doing that observation. You seem incapable of understanding even that most basic of ideas.

Dark Jaguar said...

I've been waiting for this.

"I have no idea if you are white Rick."

Bingo! Thanks for establishing beyond reasonable doubt that not even you can establish exactly what you think the difference is between various "races".

The internet is a very tough test is it not? This was hardly even scientifically rigorous.

To explain, if your claim was true, that different "races" had different mental traits, and further than you CONSTANTLY observe this sort of thing in Africa and can instantly tell that "they" lack this or that mental advantage, the natural prediction would be that the reverse is also true. You should, just by speaking with someone over a decent length of time, be fully capable of interpretting their intelligence the same way you interpretted it talking with people in Africa and tell that they are one race or another. You couldn't even begin to do so, you didn't even make a guess.

Why is that? Why is it so very easy to claim one person as mentally inferior when you know their "race" going in, and impossible to tell their race from the intelligence you have available in conversation with us right now?

One possible explanation is that in reality they have the SAME intellectual capacity as anyone else on average and that any percieved intellectual inferiority is JUST your own personal bias going into it.

It's a simple test. Which of us are white and which are not? If you can't tell, why not? Do we have to do some other test so you can more properly determine it? I can't speak for everyone else, but I'll work with you. If you have to know IN ADVANCE what race we are, and only then can you retroactively say "well I knew it because of how dumb you are", that's a pretty clear example of an unfalsifiable standard of evidence.

Jacqueline said...

The Gerbil squeeked:

"To bad you cant handle a real serious debate and you run away like that with all the respect I given you."

Says the retard that runs off at a tangent trying to evade answering pertinent questions about his racist wankfantasy.
Face it Gerbil you're just repeating the same idiotic drivel you've read in Mein Dumkopf, and on racist retard sites like Stormfront. You aren't intelleigent enough to have a coherent theory of your own to back up your baseless prejudices. All you have is a massive inferiority complex that needs covering up with Nazi wankfantasies to keep you going through the day. You're a mental weakling, Gerbriel.
You aren't even bright enough to realize when you are making self defeating arguments, that fuck your fantasy world's crediblity up.

Racist fuckwits are like dogs. They uncritically accept the crappy ideology of their alpha male top dog ( which is inevitably the dead loser Adolf Hitler)and then mindlessly parrot it back on the net.

Gerbriel can't even understand basic evolutionary theory without warping it to fit the pathetic racism he has mindlessly adhered to.

How long is Gerbriel going to spout evasive crap and not realize that he is humiliating himself every time he posts? He even parrots my insults, because deep down he knows that I'm superior to his pathetic redneck status as bottom dog.
Poodle or gerbil, which are you Gerbriel?

JS;)

Jimmy Blue said...

Racist Tool:

No young padawan, I lived in the UK, I stated where in previous posts.

So it was a long visit, the point that life in the UK seems to have passed you by still stands you idiot.

In fact, emphasising that you were there for some time makes you look even more ridiculous - if it was a flying visit you would at least have an excuse not to get a good feel for the country.

That you lived there and still don't understand the country or its people, and yet claim your travelling gives you deep insights makes you look like the utter fool you are.

Good work Racist Tool, destroying your own arguments piece by piece.