Thursday, October 01, 2009

Gabe's Theory Thread

I'm transferring a comment over here, since I don't want Gabe adding unnecessary heat to a topic that's intended for believers who want to be civil. First, Gabe, I want you to spell out your theory about the perceived "laziness" of the South American and African people you've witnessed. Give us a list of definitions. Give us a list of premises and evidence that you use. Give us your conclusion, and the logical steps you used to arrive at it. Surprise us by doing something we haven't seen from countless pseudoscientists.

Gabe's transferred comment is below the fold, and contains evidence that he hasn't been paying attention to what we've been arguing.

[Gabe] said...

I thought, as I was sitting here I would correct and try to teach the ignorant masses that seem to assemble here, something.

I remembered users here claiming that niggers in Africa and spicks in latin america are not lazy, even when I have first hand experience in this, they seem to say "you just saw someone sitting around, therefore you claim all to be lazy", which is rather ironic.

This was called, by our friend Freud, Self-projection. This is what you do, and this is how you act and cogitate, its not the rest of the world. I speak objectively when I refer to other people, especially in this context for obvious reason.

As I lived in both Africa and South America, I have not 'seen someone sitting around', no, I LIVED WITH THEM and EXPERIENCED how they are, by nature, lazy. It is very simple, most here have never travelled and will never travel because of lack of funds or fear or whatever it may be, so they simple repeat or use their own self-projected image of the world and how they want it to be.

No, if you go down here, where I am now, you EXPERIENCE the 'laziness', if you find educated and, if i may, more white people, you will note they know this as well, the people themselves do not pretend they are not lazy, THEY KNOW THEY ARE, I spoken to them about it.

This is not a "I seen someone sittng down on his break, therefore lazy" mantra scenario you seem to conjure up, excuses excuses it seems, no, this is from LIVING WITH THEM and EXPERIENCING their lifes and what they care about and how they relate to the world.

They are lazy, you should be, whats the word, Skeptic about someone claiming otherwise, maybe ask them if they lived together with these people, or even visited it? Maybe gone down to the Ghettos in america which we have ourself, spicks and niggers, sitting around, generally not 'working', and when they are, that is, they call it 'working', we call it robberies murder and rape, but that is what they consider 'work', thats how their monkey brothers in africa do it as well, mayben you should go to Congo or any other country in Africa, and see it yourself.

Rather then claiming people who have experienced it, to be false.

10/01/2009 1:39 PM

156 comments:

Bronze Dog said...

I just realized a simple way to comment on Gabe's long diatribe: Why do you need a special exception?

Why can you use anecdotes as conclusive evidence, but (I presume) homeopaths cannot?

Anonymous said...

Fine, what do you want Bronze?

You state that my knowledge and experience of the world is false (I guess I live in a "dreamworld"), what do you want and is it even possible for me to provide it?

Pictures? Movies? What?

Okay, lets see now, I give you one fact you would NEVER know else, If you did not LIVE there you would NEVER KNOW IT, you will not find it in wikipedia or on internet in general, tourism will say nothing etc, you need to LIVE and SPEAK to the individuals there to know this:

If you go to Southeast Asia, it is considered NICE and GOOD to be WHITE, negros are seen as scum and whites are seen as good.

Woman, if they can afford it, INJECT THEMSELVES to try to become MORE WHITE, sunning is considered bad as you become brown (it does not matter that you explain that whites like it), black is bad, white is good.

THIS is a simple FACT, but, as a tourist you would never know, of course, you need to LIVE THERE and SPEAK and INTERACT With the woman to find this out.

Now, according to you, it is NOT true, even with all this. Interesting. How do you relate?

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

You state that my knowledge and experience of the world is false (I guess I live in a "dreamworld"), what do you want and is it even possible for me to provide it?

No, you live in a soft squishy brain subject to all sorts of human error, just like the rest of us. Is that so hard to understand?

Pictures? Movies? What?

Census data might be useful, and if you're saying anything about genetics, genetic data from the relevant populations as well as some "white" people. An alternative is to take a random sample of people of various races being raised in very similar (as close as we can get to identical, though that's not going to happen) socioeconomic backgrounds and measure their success under a quantitative measurement.

If you go to Southeast Asia, it is considered NICE and GOOD to be WHITE, negros are seen as scum and whites are seen as good.

Woman, if they can afford it, INJECT THEMSELVES to try to become MORE WHITE, sunning is considered bad as you become brown (it does not matter that you explain that whites like it), black is bad, white is good.

THIS is a simple FACT, but, as a tourist you would never know, of course, you need to LIVE THERE and SPEAK and INTERACT With the woman to find this out.


I can accept that, since it's not a particularly extraordinary claim. I've heard of some black people in the US using bleach and such to straight out their curly hair to make it more "white," so I don't find it extraordinary that some fashion-minded people might want to look "white."

I don't have good evidence for either, but the sheer mundanity of it doesn't give me much motivation to investigate. It's also pretty trivial.

Now, according to you, it is NOT true, even with all this. Interesting. How do you relate?

What have you been smoking?

Bronze Dog said...

Of course, every time I made a comment about what I suspected your conclusion was, you shrugged it off as a straw man, so my proposed evidence-gathering methods may be moot.

Perhaps you should start with definitions and your conclusion about "race" is, and how this thing, I (currently) know not what, affects creative output.

Jacqueline said...

Gabe has no scientific evidence for his prejudices. He will never be able to get any for his racially paranoid anecdotes. To try to staunch the outright humiliation of his being in this position he has learnt to bullshit, handwave and bluster. And then hope that his opposition is too stupid to notice his tactics.
Gabe you are a sad little joke of a person. A sad Nazi woo wanker.

Bronze Dog said...

That's gotten to be my hypothesis of the day: He originally started going back to race in the previous topic before I transferred. He realized exactly why I distrust anecdotes used as conclusive evidence, and he doesn't have anything better so he cranked (pun intended) the volume up and propped up even more ridiculous straw men than before to compensate for the glaring hole.

Dweller in Darkness said...

What's particularly telling is that he still hasn't responded to me even though I've spent some time in South America and reached a completely different conclusion. His experiences somewhow trump mine by some measure I'm not privy to. I'm guess it's because he's LIVED there and EXPERIENCED them whereas I just spent 30 days working construction side-by-side with Guatemalans and 29 nights sleeping on the top bunk in an eight-bed room where I was the only Westerner.

I still wouldn't consider my observations as conclusive, but they're not dismissable.

Bronze Dog said...

My guess is that he's probably hoping we'll all forget about that. Either that, or the special pleading of anecdotalism requires an additional level of special pleading to say contrary anecdotes don't count.

Anonymous said...

First, Gabe, I want you to spell out your theory about the perceived "laziness" of the South American and African people you've witnessed.

Well that would be hard, as I have not 'perceived' the laziness, but lived with them and experienced it first hand, but alas, lets go on.

Give us a list of definitions. Give us a list of premises and evidence that you use. Give us your conclusion, and the logical steps you used to arrive at it. Surprise us by doing something we haven't seen from countless pseudoscientists.

Definitions; Lazy, 'moving slowly or gently' and 'Disinclined to work or exertion', which would suit here.

No interest in atually doing anything, sitting around doing nothing rather then working and trying to improve their society.

Evidence? Experience does not count, right? I lived with them, where they decide not to do ANYTHING and instead sit around, reason? I do not know, they are lazy by nature, they seem to consider it natural to sit around and think that food or money will come to them by itself (this I merely presume, they could also just be idiots).

The logical steps I arrived at it? I woke up every day seeing it, experiencin it? Having people NOT doing anything instead of doing anything? What do you want? Experience and reality is not valid as you claimed before, that Wikipedia is reality, not reality, so I do not know what you want as you do not seem to accept the Fact of what they done.


South America similar, but here we also have people who 'work all the time', that is, they go up in the morning, sit down on a chair 'working', and then they sit there until night, and go to bed... Others, such as the police, walk around, maybe can trick some money out of gringos, maybe arresting them for something and having them pay, alot of work, but sure, they do alot of hours, but nothing actually between does hours, sit around.

Same with a girl here, it is rather fun, I am at a shopping center, a very new and advanced thing in Peru, and this woman is sitting in a booth selling TV box or whatever it is called, I seen here sitting there from 9 to 9 at night, doing NOTHING, she sits with her telephone, sending text or whatever ,no one is actually buying anything, she just sits there, waiting for 'someone' to come and buy, but no one obviously does, as its to expensive for these people, its several dollars you see.

She COULD be doing something, cleaning the area? Sorting it out? The manages? Why do they not make her DO SOME WORK instead of sitting around? Because they are busy sitting around as well, with a cup of tea....

Bronze Dog said...

You heard it here. Anecdotalism allows Gabe to cut through all the noise of human interactions to know that "race," whatever that is, causes laziness.

You know, like how anecdotalism allows homeopathic quacks to know that an improvement in the patient's condition was caused by their diluted water, rather than a perception caused by human bias, self-limiting nature of the condition being treated, or any other possible causes the skeptics like to trot out.

Gabe, whether that laziness is real or not, you don't have anything except correlation to link that to "race". That's the central point I'm making right now.

I could link to Wikipedia's entry on that fallacy, but to match your straw man with a mirror, you believe everything in Wikipedia is false by definition and that the "white" scientific method and "white" critical thinking are worthless time wasters and did not produce an advanced culture with modern medicine and technology.

Anonymous said...

Fine, you accept that they are lazy (reality) but do not link it to race, fine, atleast we are going forward, as normally you would.

Now then, how come we, or I, have never seen the SAME characteristics in the white race? I travelled plenty of white nations, this has not been seen at ALL.

Funny enough, if you travel in america, our home nation, you WILL see this behaviour amongst the negriod population.

How do you relate? Of course, you have nothing to measure with as you do not travel, but you seemed to accept the facts I gave, so lets go on that (and no doubt its hard for you to accept facts that does not 'follow' your views).

MWchase said...

Gee. You make coordinating the spread of AIDS through solely the white population of the United States sound easy. One man could do it, with naught but a wave of the hand. Fortunately, no man has yet dared to do so.

Honestly. It's not just your word against the word of others whom you refuse to acknowledge. It's your word against history (was Tuskegee just a party school?); genetics (If the world's population is divided into Africans, Europeans, Americans, East Asians, and Oceanians, then Africans and Europeans have the lowest genetic distance); internal consistency (Asians stole white technology, but Germans did not steal non-German technology?); genetics again (ancestry cannot be 'diluted'. It is just fucking impossible, as demonstrated by Mendel, a white man.); history again (algebra and the numeral system we use today were developed by two different groups of brown people); internal consistency again (Don't fucking try to claim that race is not genetic. If you can look at someone and assign them to a group based on their appearance, then you're relying on stuff that was coded for by genes. Pretending otherwise makes you look like even more of an ignorant twat, which is an accomplishment.); and finally HEY WAIT A SEC. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU CHAMPION THE ROLE OF EPIGENETICS IN EVOLUTION (which doesn't make too much sense) WHILE DENYING THAT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HUMAN POPULATIONS ARE BASED ON GENETICS?

That is a new kind of stupid. You're just throwing words together in an attempt to piss us off, aren't you?

Bronze Dog said...

I'm only accepting it for the sake of argument, because the correlation equals causation fallacy is the bigger fish to fry right now.

Now then, how come we, or I, have never seen the SAME characteristics in the white race? I travelled plenty of white nations, this has not been seen at ALL.

Really. I see it all the time.

Funny enough, if you travel in america, our home nation, you WILL see this behaviour amongst the negriod population.

And the white population. And the hispanic population. And the asian population.

How do you relate? Of course, you have nothing to measure with as you do not travel, but you seemed to accept the facts I gave, so lets go on that (and no doubt its hard for you to accept facts that does not 'follow' your views).

Your ignorance of white laziness moves me to suspect your perceptions are heavily colored by the human failing known as "confirmation bias."

But we all know that can't be true because Gabriel was deified by frequent flier miles, and is thus immune to the weaknesses of us mere mortals.

So, Gabe, do you want me to abandon the methods of scientific inquiry just with you, or should I abandon it for all people and topics?

Bronze Dog said...

Other funny thing, Gabe, it's not your "evidence" versus our experiences. It's your evidence versus the standards imposed on everyone by science.

When we point out a logical fallacy we're playing referee. Your opponent is "I don't know" and you ran away the first time I decided to play his role.

So drop using your travel as a surrogate penis. We aren't into that type of duel by ad hominem.

Anonymous said...

Weird., WHERE¿

Lets take a walk in Botswana, for, say, one hour, and then you see alot of lazy people doing shit, then we take a walk in America, lets say MIAMI, and the only ones worth mentioning, sitting around doing nothing, are negriods or spicks, very VERY few whites for some STRANGE reason, sure we got one or two homeless, but what is that compared to thousands of spicks?

Where have YOU walked I wonder as you see all these whites sitting around doing nothing being lazy... Weird...


Also, im curious, your logic is rather weird, say if I claimed Russia to be the biggest country in the world, which it is, YOU SAY IT IS NOT, why? Well because Gabe is not true, but wait, you found a adding to wikipedia saying that Russia sure is the biggest country in the world, and sure enough NOW you accept it, that Gabe or other people that been travelling the world ,seeing the country and experiencing it, is not valid, but entry in wiki makes it True.. Should we ad a TM¿

Rick said...

Gabe, your entire position remains meaningless until you define white.

If you can't even define the groups you seek to compare, you lost the argument due to the simple fact that you haven't really made one.

So once again I ask:

What do you mean when you say white?

It's not exactly a hard question: If I were saying something about 'whites', I could come up with such a definition without too much problem. I could even come up with several different definitions, depending on what context I am using.[1] You just need to come up with one.

We're also still waiting on which of the three meanings of Aryan you intended.


[1] Early 18th century society and justifiable genetic groupings would result in using very different definitions, although one would be a subset of the other.

Bronze Dog said...

What, you can't imagine whites being lazy in their own homes?

There's also plenty of lazy white quacks who just spout out whatever harmful ideas pop into their head without testing them. Of course, that's what I spend more time fighting, since they use the same laziness of anecdotalism you do.

And, of course, you've got the classic white trash archetype. I live in Texas, so I know something about them. They typically remain in the bad parts of town. You must be really sheltered when you're home.

Continuing on this:

Also, im curious, your logic is rather weird, say if I claimed Russia to be the biggest country in the world, which it is, YOU SAY IT IS NOT, why? Well because Gabe is not true, but wait, you found a adding to wikipedia saying that Russia sure is the biggest country in the world, and sure enough NOW you accept it, that Gabe or other people that been travelling the world ,seeing the country and experiencing it, is not valid, but entry in wiki makes it True.. Should we ad a TM¿

You're the one who made this "Wikipedia is always false, personal experience is always right" thing. I take a rather pragmatic view of Wikipedia: Like any other second hand reference, it must cite good sources. Individual Wikipedia pages vary greatly in quality.

Besides, why the hell are you so obsessed with bashing Wikipedia? I only referenced one article a long time ago and you're still going batshit insane about it.

Jacqueline said...

Sorry to derail your thread Bronze Dog, but I just want to make sure that Gabe can't get out of this challenge as to the veracity of his bullshit:




"What you need to understand is that Lamarck, just as Darwin, was wrong in many many ways, but just as Darwin, some of it was right, I do not see you saying Darwin was wrong because some of his views where completely of the tracks, do we now?"


What you need to understand ,untermensch, is that both Lamarck and Darwin are long dead. The science of evolution has moved on beyond both Lamarck and Darwins' wildest dreams. These are old theories. Give us some modern stuff or be labelled a bullshitting cretinist.


"Ah, yes, and here someone do accept it, but then attacks the rest of Lamarckism, which everyone else did, and I did in my first post. It seems odd that you forgotten that I do not accept 'Lamarckism', but certain parts of it."

You don't even understand any of the outmoded theory of Lamarck. You've merely tried to paint Dawkins with what you call "Lamarckianism", but you couldn't explain what that was unless you googled it.

"No one is promoting Lamarckism, but we should not pretend that Lamarck was not correct on SOME ISSUES, just as Darwin was, and just as Darwin, he got some things wrong, but we do not speak of does now, do we, only the trolls here do, talking about neck streching and want to get the topic out of context."

Don't try to pretend that you understand anything about either Darwin or Lamarck. You've shown only bluster, not knowledge of these old scientific theorists.

You couldn't even write what DNA stands for without googling it.

Face it, you sad wanker, you are totally out of your depth and are bullshitting to try to recover from the humiliation that you got from being unable to support your racist fantasies.
You only display the Nazi stupidity of skewed pseudoscientific bullshittery. Woo wanker!
So you've read The Greatest Show on Earth have you?
Page 216 has an asterisked note, can you reproduce it for us?
Page 243 has a title in bold a quarter of the way down the page. Tell us what it is.
Page 454 has a book listed under what name that is sixth down. What name is it?
Come on then Gabe, answer these questions or show yourself a bullshitter.
EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP YOU NAZI LOSER.

We're waiting for you to answer or for you to run away like the coward that you are, Gabe.

Dunc said...

I'm white by anybody's definition, and I'm pretty fucking lazy by most standards (and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, not being infected by the stupid Protestant Work Ethic). I used to know plenty of white people who hadn't had a job in years, and lived purely on a combination of government benefits and the proceeds of drug dealing (which is actually a much more demanding job than most people imagine).

I must say though, this:

"Well that would be hard, as I have not 'perceived' the laziness, but lived with them and experienced it first hand, but alas, lets go on."

is fucking hilarious. Pure comedy gold. "First hand experience" is not "perception"? Never mind wondering what this moron is smoking, I want to know what fucking language he's speaking. It bears a close resemblance to English, but apparently the words have completely different meanings.

Your "first hand experiences" are "perceptions", you illiterate gobshite. Were you too fucking lazy and /or stupid to even learn your own native language properly?

MWchase said...

I'm white by anybody's definition

What about the one-drop rule? =P

I thought most people figured drug dealers just hang out around schoolyards and try to get kids to take drugs for free.

Wait a sec... there were posters warning about LSD at my elementary school. "Here, kids! This is, by weight, the most valuable substance in the world. Take it for free and stick it on your tongue!"

Dunc said...

Funny thing about LSD - it may be the most expensive substance in the world by weight, but it's also probably the cheapest form of paid entertainment available, by cost over duration. An acid trip works out at less than 30p per hour, even in single doses (or at least, it did the last time I knew what it cost).

Buford said...

If the only acceptable observations, to Gabe, are "living and working among them" I can qualify to speak about the place where I live and work.

I live in the Seattle-Tacoma area. I was born here, spent ten years away, but have over forty years of observing people here. What do I see?

I work at one of the most diverse companies in the area. Among our 10,000 employess are 42 different native tongues and large numbers of every race and country. We all are working very hard to keep our company solvent and provide good service to our customers. Not just the 'white' ones. Our CEO was woman until a couple of years ago. The second-highest ranking member of our medical staff is both a woman and asian. I work with several hard-workling blacks- including managers. My manager is a woman. I have seen the same thing at other companies in the area and in my travels.

On the streets we have a cottage industry of indigents. Every intersection has someone with a placard saying "Homeless- anything will help." The local 7-11 has a guy who used to stand outside asking for change until the management gave him a 'job' cleaning the store and parking lot to prevent him from harassing the customers. (He still asks for handouts) What do these people have in common? They are (nearly)all white.

Furthermore, the people who work (and I mean work) in the 7-11 are all of Indian-Pakistani descent. They quickly serve everyone who comes in and keep the store spotless at all hours.

Obviously my experience trumps Gabes because I have lived 'here' longer than he has.

Buford said...

I should say this about my previous comment:

1. Gabe must accept it. It meets or eceeds all of his requirements for commenting about the people in my area. My conclusions refute his, of course, but he'll have to deal with that.

2. The rest of you should ask me the same questions you asked Gabe and hold me to the same standards of evidence. I have no special exemption from bias. Although I did show more care than Gabe by saying things like "(Nearly) all white" because I'm sure I've seen black panhandlers, but I can't remember the last time specifically.

One clarification: Our CEO was a woman until she retired. She is still a woman, but our new CEO is a man. Just in case you thought I was implying a sex-change or a Black-Like-Me gender change...

Anonymous said...

Bronze, are you going to respond to my response?

You asked, I responded, then nothing...

Anonymous said...

I think it's very funny that this Gabe person seems to have so much time on his hands doing nothing else than looking at people being lazy! He's just walking around doing only that it seems. He knows how many hours one woman sits and does nothing. How can he know that she did nothing all this time - unless he watched her all the time, which means Gabe was... uh... doing nothing!

It just seems like a very lazy occupation this... just standing there doing nothing but watch people doing nothing... Just saying!

Bronze Dog said...

Which particular bit are you asking about, Gabe?

And you might want to double check for logical fallacies.

Jacqueline said...

"Gabe, your entire position remains meaningless until you define white."

Gabe's entire position is without meaning. He couldn't put together a coherent argument if he tried.


JS;)

Jacqueline said...

"Which particular bit are you asking about, Gabe?"

I say there Bronze Dog, you're not ignoring Gabes profound analysis of humanity are you?
How dashedly ungentlemanly of you! I demand that you respond in full to our esteemed guests well presented points of argument!



"And you might want to double check for logical fallacies."


Perhaps someone could help our esteemed guest with this endeavour. Gabe appears to be singularly devoid of the ancient art of Logic and fallacious argument detection. It would be uncivilized and blackguardish for Gabe to be put at such a disadvantage by letting him attempt something impossible for him to do.

Toodle pip me old chinas!



JS;)


(Tip o' the hat to Akusai and Magus for introducing me to their Victorian friend.)

Anonymous said...

One thing that puzzles me with dealing with cretins, such as self proclaimed 'hihly intellectuals' on blogs like this one, is the 'what is real' mantra and 'provide evidence' for basic realities.

For example, if Bronze Dog claims he goes over to his grandma for a cup of Tea and said he met two Creationist on the way, and go on about the ignorance they spewed, no one questions him.

But if a highly intellectual who travelled the world recounts his experience of the world you get a wild array of attacks.

I think I come to the reason for this, and its a combination of self-projection, widely mentioned by Freud and low self-exteem of what they have not done in their lives. For example, that Bronze go over to grandma is something everyone here can, literally, do anytime, but travelling, going to Canada or Europe is something most here could only dream of, they cant afford it, most of them sit infront of World of Warcraft when they are not working, owning a passport or even dreaming of going ot another STATE is as far fetched for them as going to mars.

And so it seems it all comes down to a a rather tragic end, people need to question reality, not only does it come to, say travelling, but even basic things such as reading a book, as we have the equal attack of 'not reading Dawkins', a basic claim as you can just go out and buy the book, why would they question such a basic fact but not question the grandma visit? Low self-esteem and lack of ground for their own pathetic life, obviously.

Irony at its best, no doubt.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe:

For example, if Bronze Dog claims he goes over to his grandma for a cup of Tea and said he met two Creationist on the way, and go on about the ignorance they spewed, no one questions him.

Because Creationist ignorance is hardly an extraordinary claim. Those new to the Creationist manufactroversy might question whether those sorts of people exist, and it would be understandable.

But if a highly intellectual who travelled the world recounts his experience of the world you get a wild array of attacks.

You mischaracterize our responses. It's not your experiences we doubt: It's the empirical conclusions you make from them.

I think I come to the reason for this, and its a combination of self-projection, widely mentioned by Freud and low self-exteem of what they have not done in their lives. For example, that Bronze go over to grandma is something everyone here can, literally, do anytime, but travelling, going to Canada or Europe is something most here could only dream of, they cant afford it, most of them sit infront of World of Warcraft when they are not working, owning a passport or even dreaming of going ot another STATE is as far fetched for them as going to mars.

Nice appeal to motive to excuse your poor analogy and countless earlier logical fallacies.

You really have no idea what we've been saying this whole time, have you?

And so it seems it all comes down to a a rather tragic end, people need to question reality, not only does it come to, say travelling, but even basic things such as reading a book, as we have the equal attack of 'not reading Dawkins', a basic claim as you can just go out and buy the book, why would they question such a basic fact but not question the grandma visit? Low self-esteem and lack of ground for their own pathetic life, obviously.

You're the one projecting, here. You're incapable of questioning your perceptions. We've been asking you the same questions we would ask ourselves if we were in your shoes.

All we get from you in response is evasion. You seem to think that just because some of us don't travel as widely, you're innately superior and that you don't need to apply any scientific rigor.

You're exactly as lazy as "Dr." Jay Gordon, who argues that vaccines magically cause autism because his subjective "clinical experience" says so, and thus it's pointless to pay attention to detailed, rigorous studies from all over the world that say otherwise.

Is that all you've got Gabe? Strained analogies that deliberately ignore our points?

MWchase said...

... My grandparents all live in another state.

Anyway, you're missing the point that you're overgeneralizing. For any given way of defining a group, besides 'lazy/hardworking', you're likely to get some lazy people, and some hardworking people.

Now, the difference between recounting the arguments of some specific creationists, and generalizing from a few creationists to all of them (Kent Hovind is one specific flavor of crazy, for example. Any reasonable OEC would either laugh or stare.), is similar to generalizing a character flaw that some black people had to all black people.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe's philosophy leaves me to wonder what else he believes in.

Anonymous said...

You're exactly as lazy as "Dr." Jay Gordon, who argues that vaccines magically cause autism because his subjective "clinical experience" says so, and thus it's pointless to pay attention to detailed, rigorous studies from all over the world that say otherwise.

And this is the point, they dont say its 'magically' causes autism, they refer to certain causes thay may cause autism.

And they are, indeed, correct. The point is that this is, in the big whole, a very few indeed. Not even the hardened proponents of vaccination deny that autism may occur, but just as any educated person, points out that this is a extreme minority and point out the reasons for this.

You, on the other hand, misrepresent them or refer to loudmouth quacks and say 'look, this is what its all about', and ignore the serious medicals in their field, and speak to them honestly.

That they have concerns is fine, and to show them that their is nothing to be concerned about is not hard, and that, as anything, their is issues with various fields, you on the other hand do not do that, you make the either
creative Caricature, or refer to some cazy hack, suck as Kent Hovind or Ray Comfort to make your case, thats not mature nor professional.

Anonymous said...

MWChase: Now, the difference between recounting the arguments of some specific creationists, and generalizing from a few creationists to all of them (Kent Hovind is one specific flavor of crazy, for example. Any reasonable OEC would either laugh or stare.), is similar to generalizing a character flaw that some black people had to all black people.

I get your point, I will try to formulate a better argument for you without using the lazy people, even if that is an obvious fact, but I can see your point and why you have issues with it, even if it is a basic fact and interesting experience.

Bronze Dog said...

I just had to wonder about the crank magnetism, didn't I?

Gabe, if you don't understand what problems we have with quacks, it's no wonder you don't understand the problems we have with you. Jay Gordon expects the medical community to make a special exception to the laws of logic just for him. Just like homeopaths expect us to do the same for them. Just like you expect us to do for your views on race.

You want us to accept intellectual laziness because it's convenient and science is hard. That's what anecdotalism is all about.

Bronze Dog said...

Oh, and if the anti-vax community changes their causation story every two weeks, I think it's fair to just call it "magic."

Bronze Dog said...

There's one thing you have to realize about yourself, Gabe: In the larger context of our skeptical lives, you're no different than any other woo. You employ the same sorts of evasions, defense mechanisms, and bad logic they all do.

Science applies to all empirical subjects, and you've provided us with no reason to make an exception. The plural of anecdote is still not data.

Anonymous said...

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=18054

And interesting article worth reading, and then Africa should be a good school project to visit, because obviously a the guy is a 'ignorant racist' and a 'fucking clan member'.

Interesting.

Dweller in Darkness said...

Did you even read the article? All the parts where it talks about social and culture pressure to conform to a stereotype, with nary a mention of genetic or intrinsic inferiority?

Rick said...

Jacqueline said...
Gabe's entire position is without meaning. He couldn't put together a coherent argument if he tried.

Actually, "Group A is lazy, while group B is hard working" is a fully meaningful position. Provided, of course, that you can define groups A and B.

That his argument sucks over and above this is another problem he has.

@Gabe:

So, are you going to define what you mean by white, or are you going to publicaly concede that you don't even have a meaningful position to defend?

Anon said...
I think it's very funny that this Gabe person seems to have so much time on his hands doing nothing else than looking at people being lazy! He's just walking around doing only that it seems.

From some of his comments, I suspect he was a protestant missionary. It would fit with were he has said he travelled, and with the portions of those societies he has described himself observing. Having a lot of time to look at things would also fit, as the missionaries themselves tend to work in a supervisory role.

Anonymous said...

Actually, "Group A is lazy, while group B is hard working" is a fully meaningful position. Provided, of course, that you can define groups A and B.

That his argument sucks over and above this is another problem he has.


Yes, of course, not that anyone actually given a good response and explain themselves, they just said 'it sucks, not valid wrongwrongwrong lalalallala' and thats it, you need to remember, experience is not valid, only wikipedia which they, ironically, seem unaware is written by people who generally know a subject or experienced it, say visited Paris if they write about Paris... Gosh, tough one that.

So, are you going to define what you mean by white, or are you going to publicaly concede that you don't even have a meaningful position to defend?

Or are you going to publically concede buhu buhu, wow yo uare whiny little girls aren't you.

When I have time I will speak to Bronze and try to give him what he wants, mostly he just ignored the responses and claim its wrong, the REST of the cretins (should I call them spics? Me suspect) I just ignore, most of their comments are insults and idiocity, they are pathetic hiding behind others like Dawkins trying to get some osrt of Authority.

From some of his comments, I suspect he was a protestant missionary. It would fit with were he has said he travelled, and with the portions of those societies he has described himself observing. Having a lot of time to look at things would also fit, as the missionaries themselves tend to work in a supervisory role.

Wow, impressive piece of dectective work there, not to mention that I think I SAID I have done missionary work, but hey that demands that you read. Reminds me of some other guy asking me tto DEFINE aryan, which is pretty funny, beause arrogantly he claimed Aryan have SEVERAL meanings, wow, never knew that, other then, of course, THE FIRST TIME I ever mentioned Aryan and I EXPLAINED JUST THAT.

Shows how good reading skills THEY have, anyway, Yes, I did indeed do missionary work, but im curious, how is this related to being lazy? Strange, I am now lazy for LIVING and EXPERIENCING a society and NOTICING what people are doing, WOW, apparently these gents here CANT SEE people around them and take it in, they NEED to be unemployed to see how their society is working, sitting looking at everyone, wow, self-projection at work.

I BOTH done missionary work, getting my hands dirty HELPING people, which has involved supevision as well, and general help (none missionary) such as working at a orphanage with nigger children.

But now I forgot, my experience is not valid and cerainly not true, I need to make an entry in Wikipedia first, then it is true. Interestingly enough, Chales Darwkin WROTE A BOOK, thats it, about his VIEWS and THEORY of the world, and it is considered TRUE, strange, so all it takes is to WRITE something, just like Wikipedia runs your reality world today.

Funny that.

Anonymous said...

South America similar, but here we also have people who 'work all the time', that is, they go up in the morning, sit down on a chair 'working', and then they sit there until night, and go to bed...

These are your words, Gabe. You draw conclusions of peoples' laziness from the observation that they spend the whole day on a chair? How can you know that they were sitting on that chair until night - unless you watched them ALL that time, and if you watch people THAT much, yes then I will draw conclusions about your laziness and how much work you really do!

Either you are just as lazy, or your observations are incomplete and I can not trust you conclusions.

And by the way... from an earlier post:

I am trying to learn Swedish, the biggest of the Scandinavian countries because of Historical reasons, me having Viking Blood and all, but its not going good. :(

I AM Swedish and that viking blood talk is just bullshit and will make most Swedes and other Scandinavians laugh their pants off, unless they are of the small and ridiculed neo-nazi minority who also have no idea what they are saying when they say they have 'viking blood'.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe, if your points involve logical fallacies and spitting in the eye of so-called "white" science and everything it is founded on, I think I've already refuted those arguments over and over again.

Do you have anything that doesn't qualify as such?

MWchase said...

You're the one who keeps on bringing up Wikipedia, and tried to ascribe a claim to Dawkins. Are you even reading the stuff that you type?

Darwin was able to back up his views with reasoning. That's why On the Origin of Species is doing better than Mein Kampf.

The problem with your arguments is, you're ascribing the behavior that you've observed to skin color, without accounting for any of the many alternative factors. This has been pointed out to you. In addition, you're generalizing from your observations to everybody who shares that skin color. This has also been pointed out to you.

Bronze Dog said...

It's funny how presumptuous Gabe is about what we think. He's done everything he can to reinforce his stereotypes. Especially repeating his WoW and Wikipedia straw men over and over in hypnotic manner to protect his solipsism from any actual efforts on our part.

Never played WoW, and I rarely go to Wikipedia for anything more than occasionally looking up for odd plants and animals friends sometimes bring up.

Our point is pretty much that Gabe refused to ask himself the questions we would ask.

But his silliness (and repeated, desperate efforts to ignore contradictory anecdotes) makes him look like the pro-indoctrination sort: Those of us who ask questions about double-checking against self-deception are ridiculed, while he, seeking to confirm his biases and resist basic questions makes him a model of closed-mindedness.

It's that newage (rhymes with sewage) anti-enlightenment mentality that we're fighting against, Gabe. That you randomly chose race as a topic instead of, say, psychic powers is trivial. But you can't see that because you've made up your mind about what we're saying before this whole thing started.

Anonymous said...

Have you ever asked yourself why negriod nations are inferior to white mans nation?

Have you ever, and I mean, Ever, thought about it? With the odd exception (which has explanations), White man has superior Nation, we live in utopias they could only dream of.

And if White Man controls a negriod or spic society, do you know what we get? Yes indeed, a good society. Perfect examples of this is South Africa, which then the people turned against their masters, and what did they do? They murdered innocent men and woman because they where white, and then destroyed their entire nation because they lacked the basic understanding of running a farm or government and so on.

Even if we take examples where we GIVE the negriods, in the hope that they become educated enough to understand and run their own nation, they almost universally destroy their nation, violence, murder and corruption.


The asians clearly have a genetical edvantage, we give them our knowledge and they seem to be able to handle it, Some do, say Japanese, and others such as Singapore, made great by Us, White man, and then given back and they could, in contrast to negriods, keep it stable, they followed our orders and discription on how to have a society.

Negriods are, and seem always been, a diffeent issue, they are clearly less developed and more savage. They monkey brains seem to have some real issues with handling basic instructions, and spics are not far behind.

Maybe you never noticed, but everyone wants to go to america, why? Because we are the best, the filthy mexicans run away from their piece of shit country, WHY? So strange is it not?

And you ever, EVER thought about why the crime and violence in the spic and negriod communities we have in america is so high? It is strange, we given them a chance to live in an utopian society, White Mans society (they all look up to us, because THEY seem to understand how good we are, even when you claim its not so, ironic is it not?) and they still turns to violence and crime, just like back in Africa, and spics are not far behind.

Ever thought about it? Or is your computer world the only thing you can see? Only roleplay worth mentioning, right?

Bronze Dog said...

How does this metaphysical concept of race explain any of that, Gabe? Did your mystical, magical journey across the world endow you with X-ray vision to compare their "monkey brains" with those of whites? Did some white monastic missionary on top of a mountain give you with DNA-o-vision to see the genetic cause through all the noise of politics, economics, culture, science, and so on and so forth.

How about this Gabe, can you at least say you are a normal human being without supernatural perceptual abilities?

Like it or not, Gabe, you are not a god. Like us, you are a mere mortal. You can't wuss your way out of scientific rigor by talking about the deification you received through the power of frequent flier miles.

Oh, and your worship of the WoW/Wikipedia stereotype is getting old.

I note that you still haven't meaningly defined race. Until you do, I'm going to just ridicule it for what it is: Magic.

MWchase said...

And clearly, the Germans couldn't handle English technology, because it was only a few decades before they went to war twice.</sarcasm>

Also, does this mean that you won't complain if we bring up genetics anymore?

In addition, do you stand by your claim that "blood" can be "deluded [sic]"? Because that runs directly counter to everything we know about genetics.

As I've said before, we're not a superpower because we're white, we're white because the geography conducive to technological advancement (according to one interpretation of history) happened to lie far enough north that being black would give people rickets.

And still I wonder... how can you countenance comparing black people to monkeys when humanity's closest living relatives have white skin? Not only are you denigrating capable people, you're doing it in a way that makes no sense.

(And I'd still like to see how Obama can do everything you said he would while being lazy. Or does he have hybrid vigor or some shit to allow him to turn the power of whiteness against us?)

Bronze Dog said...

In addition, do you stand by your claim that "blood" can be "deluded [sic]"? Because that runs directly counter to everything we know about genetics.

Because it's maaaaagic! And genetics is irrelevant! ;)

MWchase said...

But he mentioned genetics himself just now. Or rather, "genetical" stuff.

Bronze Dog said...

Kind of contradictory with his earlier arguments. Gabe can't seem to make up his mind: When he wants to talk about genetics, we're allegedly afraid of it. When we the tell him "genetic data or STFU", suddenly genetics is irrelevant.

Oh, and Gabe, shifting the burden of proof onto us to develop a detailed socioeconomic hypothesis to explain poverty isn't the way to convince us. It's exactly the same tactic as Creationists: "You don't know how the eye evolved, therefore we know it was a magic sky fairy."

Magic sky fairies aren't a useful explanation for evolution because there's no mechanism for action and no predictions about what we'll see when we look closer.

You have yet to tell us how your metaphysical concept of race can explain the poverty of nations. What precisely are these inferior traits, and how do they cause problems? So far, all we've got is your word that your DNA-o-vision tells you so, and how dare we ask for you to exercise scientific rigor.

MarkCC said...

In response to part of Gabe's first comment: My wife is Chinese, so I've had a bit of exposure to Chinese culture. It's true that in China and related cultures, pale skin is considered positive, and dark skin is not.

But it's also pretty well understood where that comes from - and it predates any significant contact with whites or africans.

It's confucianism. Scholars and Mandarins were people to be honored. Farmers, peasants, and laborers, on the other hand, were very much not.

How can you tell a Mandarin from a peasant if both are Han Chinese? Easy. Look at their skin colors. Peasants have to work in the sun. Mandarins don't. Peasant women have to work in the fields with their husbands. Women of the court, wives of the mandarins, don't. Workers wind up dark. "Respectable" people don't.

That kind of thing gets embedded in a culture.

In the case of the Chinese, that's pretty well known by people who study the culture. I'd bet that a lot of the light-dark stuff in many cultures come down to the same thing: dark skin is a visual identifier of a laborer.

Bronze Dog said...

And Mark slam dunks with a very effective explanation that Gabe, with his conclusion-jumping newage (rhymes with sewage) philosophy was unable to think of.

That's just one example why argument from lack of imagination is a fallacy, Gabe, and you revel in it.

MarkCC said...

You've never seen laziness in "the white race"?

My wife and I were on vacation in Italy on 9/11. My wife is Chinese-born Canadian. On the morning on 9/11, before anything had happened, we discovered that she left her green card home. We called a neighbor to get it and fedex it to us. They got it to the fedex office right around the time that the second plane hit the towers.

We were frantic waiting for it to come; tracking it, waiting for planes to start flying, then waiting for it to get to us. Finally, according to fedex, it was out on the truck for delivery, and should get to us by noon.

Noon comes. No delivery. 1pm, 2pm, 3pm, 4pm. No delivery. We call fedex. The truck driver got tired, so he just decided not to do the afternoon deliveries.

Out in the country in Tuscany, people were lazy by american standards. (Personally, I think they just know how to enjoy life!) Things opened at 9am, which really meant 9:15 or 9:30, whenever they managed to get there. They'd close for "lunch" at noon, which really meant 11:45. Lunch was the main meal of the day - so they'd be closed for at least two hours to give people time to get home, eat, and come back. They'd usually reopen around 2:30, which tended to mean more like 2:45 or even 3. And then they'd close for the night at 6, which typically really meant more like 5:30-5:45.

But it worked for them. Of course, it was a farming area, and we were in the town. The farmers - the people who really worked, were working on the farms - which we never went to see. We were there towards the end of the harvest - so the farmers were hard at work, from dawn to dusk. And the town was empty. No one was particularly bothering about working hours, because it wasn't really a tourist town, and the locals were all out in the fields - no one was going to come to the market during the day!

Of course, people like Gabe prefer to see things in terms of their bigotry. So if you don't *see* the farmers, but you only see the shopkeepers who have no customers, well, they're just a bunch of lazy, shiftless inferiors. And the farmers, putting in the 14 hour days to finish their harvest? They just don't exist.

Bronze Dog said...

Nice lesson in selection effects, though like our earlier efforts, it will fall on deaf ears.

Rhoadan said...

As long as we're talking about comparisons here, MarkCC's story reminded me of shopping in the suburbs of Manchester, England.

The English mom and pop shops (as opposed to chains like Tesco and Boots), all shut down for an hour at noon, and closed bang on the nose at 5:00 pm. It drove my mother nuts. We eventually found a shop run by, well, I was never sure if they were Indian or Pakistani, but they worked through lunch and their store was open until,*gasp* 7:00 pm. It rapidly became my mom's favorite store.

Who're the lazy ones here?

Rick said...

Yes, of course, not that anyone actually given a good response and
explain themselves, they just said 'it sucks, not valid wrongwrongwrong
lalalallala' and thats it....


The criticisms about your analysis have been very clearly explained. Your apparent inability to understand those explanations can only be a problem at your end.

So, are you going to define what you mean by white, or are you going to
publicaly concede that you don't even have a meaningful position to
defend?


Or are you going to publically concede buhu buhu, wow yo uare whiny
little girls aren't you.


Answer the question:

What do you mean when you say white?

If you cannot give that definition, then you aren't saying anything meaningful when you make claims about whites.

Now, are you going to answer the question, or just keep avoiding it? Do you not have an answer? Do you want to be able to include and exclude peoples on an ad hoc basis? Or do you have reason to believe that your definition is going to blow up in your face once you give it?

Wow, impressive piece of dectective work there, not to mention that I
think I SAID I have done missionary work, but hey that demands that you
read.


If you had said it, it must have been in one of the minor offshoot threads. Perhaps you are assuming some of your statements would be read the way they would be in a different context.

Checking back, I do see that I had missed you identifying which meaning of Aryan you meant. Of course, it wasn't as an archaic term for Indo-European or the linguistic group proposed in some 19th century theories.... Some free advice: If you don't want to look quite as racist, I would suggest that you switch to using the term Nordic. This lacks the linkage to scam artists, Atlantis and mass murderers while describing the same group of actual people.


Since you seem to give such weight to personal observation, I should point out to you that I have worked around and with people from just about everywhere on Earth. What's more, I have done so in environments that act to remove most non-genetic factors. My observations had no correlation between ethnic background and either laziness or intellectual ability.

Jacqueline said...

"equal attack of 'not reading Dawkins', a basic claim as you can just go out and buy the book, why would they question such a basic fact but not question the grandma visit?


Do you know what evidence is in an argument or are you being deliberately dense?


"Low self-esteem and lack of ground for their own pathetic life, obviously."


Funny I thought that was more your motivation, since you need to declare yourself superior to anyone with more melanin in their skin than you.

"Irony at its best, no doubt."


Since you can't, or won't think about what you've written you don't know that the irony all stems from you. It is the irony of your cowardice when asked questions, and the irony of being able to formulate any concrete evidence for your racism.
Plus you're jolly uncivilized and a bore to boot. Get in your time machine and go back to Nazi Germany. Perhaps you will look like you know what you're talking about amongst even denser folk.

JS;)

Jacqueline said...

"Actually, "Group A is lazy, while group B is hard working" is a fully meaningful position. Provided, of course, that you can define groups A and B."


That isn't Gabe's argument. that is just what he has had to defer to to make his opinion sound logical.
His argument is that black, spicks, yids , whatever derogatory name he applies to humans different to his Nazi vision, are genetically inferior.
But he is short on proof.

Jacqueline said...

"But if a highly intellectual who travelled the world recounts his experience of the world you get a wild array of attacks.

I think I come to the reason for this, and its a combination of self-projection, widely mentioned by Freud..."

Is it me or is this ignorant twat still stuck in the nineteenth century?

He also thinks himself highly intellectual but can't even read a few page numbers. Or stick to a point and prove it.

JS:)

Jacqueline said...

"Chales Darwkin WROTE A BOOK, thats it, about his VIEWS and THEORY of the world, and it is considered TRUE, strange, so all it takes is to WRITE something, just like Wikipedia runs your reality world today."


Is that Charles Darwin you mean or are you having a fit due to being an inbred spacker?
Gabe, I have news for you. There is more scientifically verified evidence for the theory of evolution than Darwin dreamed of. You'd have known that if you'd actually bothered to read The Greatest Show on Earth, rather than vaguely try to tarnish Richard Dawkins by waffling and blowing utterly vague nonsense.
Now where is the scientifically verified evidence for your retarded racism?
Come to think of it, where is the scientific verification of you being "highly intellectual" because I can't see anything intellectual in your posts. You come across as a semi literate bullshitter with a bee up his ass when it comes to others working.

JS;)

Anonymous said...

Yes Mark, you are truly amazing, everyone is amazed here by your skill of insulting and making up stories about me, and that is the point, isn't it? Not facing the argument but attacking the person.

It is the same thing with claiming I have not travelled, or I have not Read Dawkins book etc, it just makes no sense, why would anyone state such a weird thing other then trying to excuse themselves.

Once again, and for the last time, I did more then "seeing them being lazy", this is self-projection, this is YOU, you speak about yourself, you need to realize that, and then, over and over again, I continue explaining it, over and over and over.....

No, I lived in these societies, LIVED with them, in the same way I LIVE in America I LIVE in botswana or peru ot south africa, when you live in a society, you see these things, especially if you are interested in the subject.

Of course, there are others who do not want or like the truth, and they are the ones denying everything from 'you havent been there' to 'your reality is not valid, only mine is', and its funny, in a sad sort of way.

In the real world, out of world of Warcraft or Diablo or whatever you geeks play, there is a different world from what CNN or FOX tells you, you should visit it, it truly opens the eyes and educates you, ina true sense, lets you learn about the world.

If you are not afraid of it, of course, which the people here certainly are, which you note by the attacks and attempt to excuse themselves, most even dont go that far, they just say Fuck You.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Anonymous said...

My point exactly, thank you.


Now this is the atheist community you got, a bunch of insulting rednecks insulting anyone questioning their views and have done nothing with their lives, funny thing. Atleast if they (you) admitted your fear of being questioned, then I would have a tiny bit respect, but this is just pathetic.

Or would you distance yourself from these kind of people Bronze?... No? My point... Exactly.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe, do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

djfav said...

You're quite welcome. Now kindly fuck off. Tell your friends what nasty things we said to hurt your precious feelings, you fucking racist.

Oh, and nice atheist baiting, by the way.

Bronze Dog said...

I've been having fun trying to bludgeon the most basic points into your head, Gabe, but I most certainly won't blame others for expressing frustration with your sheer inability to understand what we're talking about.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Bronze, you admit that you stand behind the very behaviour you condemn amongst Creationist, you heard it here first gents.

With the facts of ignoring all the evidence I given for the lazy spics (culture behaviour, inferior societies etc) and the fact you agree with insulting the 'enemy'. it puts you in a rather strange position.

Your nothing but a poser Bronze, nice.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Bronze Dog said...

You really don't know what's going on here, do you, Gabe?

You're the one acting like a certain Creationist: "Those logical fallacies are made up by those who hate God!"

You're incapable of seeing beyond the surface, and you're incapable of seeing the flaws in using the same house of cards design nearly all Creationists, pseudoscientists, quacks, psychics, and penis enlargement pill hucksters use.

Bronze Dog said...

The plural of anecdote is not "evidence" for good reason, Gabe.

MWchase said...

Now, now, be fair. There could be some kind of actual reason, besides intellectual dishonesty, that he refuses to acknowledge the many challenges that we've made to his 'arguments'. A mental disorder, perhaps.

I'm not typing up another wall of text (possible inspiration for a Magic card?) summarizing all of it, though. I mean, if he's not going to actually read the stuff that MarkCC wrote, then I'd say he's hopeless.

Actually, to miss the point so thoroughly, I'd almost guess he's grepping obscenities and words like "racist" and "bigot".

Anonymous said...

So, lets say me and ten million other people see the same, you then say, no, its not true, it does not matter how intelligent Gabe is, because its only true if its on Wikipedia...

Is that ocrrect? Or what was your basis for reality? As YOU seeing things is not real, and yet Wikipedia is telling Reality? Which you are reading, which has been written by someone else, which.. etc.. You get the point, feel free to explain in DETAIL because this seems interesting.. Links to wikipedia sites, no thankyou...

And your comment was funny, first because you accuse me of being a Creationist/Quack or whatever, thats your defense, making shit up, and then, secondly, because I got a Large Penis... Haha, made it funnier.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Bronze Dog said...

So, lets say me and ten million other people see the same, you then say, no, its not true, it does not matter how intelligent Gabe is, because its only true if its on Wikipedia...

Stop masturbating about Wikipedia! Why do you keep bringing it up? Why? Seriously, why? Wikipedia has nothing to do with my beliefs! You know this, and yet you continue to lie by claiming Wikipedia is a major source when it's not.

Oh, and argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy. It's the reason why homeopathy, despite being incapable of any reaction, is still popular. Same thing is true about penis enlargement pills.

Is that [co]rrect?

A thousand times no!

Or what was your basis for reality?

For the hundredth time, the scientific method.

As YOU seeing things is not real, and yet Wikipedia is telling Reality? Which you are reading, which has been written by someone else, which.. etc.. You get the point, feel free to explain in DETAIL because this seems interesting.. Links to wikipedia sites, no thankyou...

Methinks your pathological hatred and obsession for Wikipedia has blinded you to anything I say.

I use the scientific method: If you have a hypothesis, do everything you can think of to prove it wrong before you accept it. Control for alternative explanations (make it as hard as possible for them to explain an outcome). Make predictions with the hypothesis and see if they come true.

If your "race" hypothesis can't make predictions about what we'll see in DNA, I don't see any reason to accept it over "I don't know," much less all the much more plausible explanations.

And your comment was funny, first because you accuse me of being a Creationist/Quack or whatever, thats your defense, making shit up, and then, secondly, because I got a Large Penis... Haha, made it funnier.

Translation: Your knowledge of the scientific method is zero, therefore you are incapable of seeing why your house of cards is just as flawed in the exact same ways as all the other crazies and hucksters out there.

Bronze Dog said...

If ten million people told me the world was flat, I doubt I'd reconsider, since a flat Earth fails to explain so many empirical observations.

Anonymous said...

For the hundredth time, the scientific method.

And this does not consist of people? People who see and experience and live in the Real World, the one you constantly question being real? (well, that is, if you do not agree with it).

I apologize for the 'ad populum', I should have said EXPERIENCE rather then See, my point is, the world consist of PEOPLE, everything in the world is EXPERIENCES, you question this reality, thats my issue, if enough people deem something true, is it? No, but if something is true, HOW do you come tothat conclusion and why is YOUR view correct?

Wikipedia has nothing to do with my beliefs!

Belief, precisely..

I do not 'believe' in things, I do not have 'belief' Bronze, thats what differ us, I accept the REAL WORLD whiles you BELIEVE in whatever you want to believe.

That the earth is (slightly) spherical is not a belief, and it does not matter that you BELIEVE it or not, it is irrelevant to the FACT of it, see?

You hold your beliefs, but dont think they have anything to do with reality.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Epistemology: You're doing it wrong.

Bronze Dog said...

Gabe: And this does not consist of people? People who see and experience and live in the Real World, the one you constantly question being real? (well, that is, if you do not agree with it).

Perhaps you didn't hear me: The scientific METHOD. It's not the number of people, but HOW they go about experiencing the world. Are you really so dense?

I apologize for the 'ad populum', I should have said EXPERIENCE rather then See, my point is, the world consist of PEOPLE, everything in the world is EXPERIENCES, you question this reality, thats my issue, if enough people deem something true, is it? No, but if something is true, HOW do you come tothat conclusion and why is YOUR view correct?

Wow, are you saying that "experience" is a supernatural state of awareness now? And no, it's not the number of people, it's the scientific rigor involved.

A million casual "experiences" about the flatness of the Earth cannot trump a replicable, detailed experiment showing its curvature.

Belief, precisely..

I do not 'believe' in things, I do not have 'belief' Bronze, thats what differ us, I accept the REAL WORLD whiles you BELIEVE in whatever you want to believe.

That the earth is (slightly) spherical is not a belief, and it does not matter that you BELIEVE it or not, it is irrelevant to the FACT of it, see?

You hold your beliefs, but dont think they have anything to do with reality.


Argument from equivocation. Nice. And given by someone who believes epistemology is an American Idol contest. The irony is painful.

Bronze Dog said...

To put Gabe's experiences into the flat Earth metaphor, "I've been all over the world, and everywhere I've been, it's flat!"

Bronze Dog said...

Heck, I feel like extending that last comment further to bring out the differences:

Eratosthenes: "I heard that the sun's directly over head at noon on the summer solstice in Syene, but at the same time, it casts a shadow in Alexandria. So, I conducted an experiment to measure the angles of shadows at the exact same moment in time. Using some clever trigonometry, I've determined that the Earth is a sphere with a circumference about 250,000 stades. Here's a more detailed description of my methods and the data I used. If you're too busy, I can just tell you that that many prestigious science journals approved it for publication with no serious complaints. If you want, though, you can double-check my math or even do the experiment yourself if you have the resources. I go through that whole process to make sure there weren't any alternative explanations for my results that I didn't think of, as well as avoid self-deception from my biases."

Gabriel: "I've been all over the world, and everywhere I've been, it's flat!"

Now, I don't have any reference to detailed studies proving a negative about race, aside from some interpretations about the shallowness of the human gene pool that doesn't leave much room for race, but that's not what the analogy is about.

The analogy is about the inadequacy of anecdotalism and what separates the scientific method from Gabe's method.

Gabe, if you ever figure out why I don't buy into psychic powers and all that other newage crap, you'll understand why I don't buy into your hypothesis. Race has nothing to do with my rejection of your slothful anecdotal approach.

Bronze Dog said...

Still more extension: Gabe's hypothesis, or at least what I've gathered about it, requires us to believe that genes can be "diluted" by interracial reproduction, that a negative trait can persist that easily among a population, that scientific progress and economic prosperity are only a matter of "smart genes" and not of external factors like resources or a civilization's knowledge base.

I don't see how it can explain the European Dark Ages, the current newage (rhymes with sewage) dim age, all the pseudosciences spawned by perfectly intelligent white people, or the exceptionally talented black people that exist.

Heck, Obama's half white, but Gabe somehow just "knows" that he couldn't possibly have received a full complement of "smart white genes" or whatever he believes in.

In short, Gabe, what you're doing isn't just being lazy about anecdotalism, but asking us to believe that thousands of scientists, working hard, double checking each other, are wrong about nearly everything. And all because you had some "experiences" we can't analyze.

You're just an extreme example of a cookie-cutter woo, Gabe. My real interest in you is that you live up to just about every stereotype I have of woos. It's just mere happenstance that you choose race for the topic instead of one of the other myriad pseudosciences.

Wikinite said...

Seems like I've missed a lot here, so please forgive if I am rehashing old points/questions.

@Gabe: I know you have said you're life experience with dealing with people in Africa is your evidence for them being lazy. How do you qualify, gather, categorize this information?

i.e. do you see a someone sitting around and say to yourself "huh, that's odd, shouldn't he be at work?", ask him about it, and receive an answer "well, we Africans are just lazy, lol". Do you do ethnographies?

btw- I read in another thread that you said the Egyptian museum is a dump. Unfortunately, having recently been there, I can verify that this is more than correct. The place is more than a dump, it is a damn travesty. However, the museum in Alexandria is quite good.

Rick said...

@Gabe:

You still haven't answered the basic question: "What do you mean when you say white?"

It's such a simple question that I find it hard to believe that you are unable to come up with an answer. But perhaps you need it broken down a bit more.

So, let me start by giving some groupings from before the Age of Exploration[1] and you can say if they would be white, not white, or a groups that contains both whites and non whites:

The people of the Germanies, not including Jews or Roma.

The people of France, not including Jews or Roma.

The people of Iberia, not including Jews or Roma.

The people of Italy, not including Jews or Roma.

The people of the British Isles, not including Jews or Celts.

The people of Scandinavia.

The Slavic peoples, not including Jews or Roma.

Hungarians, not including Jews or Roma.

Poles, not including Jews or Roma.

The Greeks/Macedonians, not including Jews or Roma.

European Jews.

Celts.

Roma.

The people of Asia Minor.

The people of the Middle East.

The people of North Africa.


That covers most of the people included in various definitions of 'white'. It only really ignores an economic definition that has 'white' as the first world in-group. I have separated out Jews and Roma due to their cultural isolation and wide distribution.


[1] The period is chosen to eliminate the large scale migration and colonization which began in the 16th century.

Jacqueline said...

"I do not 'believe' in things, I do not have 'belief' Bronze, thats what differ us, I accept the REAL WORLD whiles you BELIEVE in whatever you want to believe."


You see Gabe's imagined ubermenschitty powers enable him to see Obama's dark plans (pun intended) to give us Whiteys AIDS. Its not a belief, oh no! He had a vision provided by the ghost of Adolf Hitler that told him this FACT. So it must be real.

"You hold your beliefs, but dont think they have anything to do with reality."

Listen to yourself sometimes Gabe.
You should realize that your racist fantasies have coloured (pun intended) your perceptions. You don't want to examine your beliefs because they provide a comfort blanket for your weak ego. Face it Gabe, the only person that considers you an intellectual is yourself. To anyone with a modicum of reason you are just a sad little man with delusions of grandeur.
Bronze Dog, can we have a collection of money to buy Gabe a Napoleon costume?

JS:)

Jacqueline said...

"You're quite welcome. Now kindly fuck off. Tell your friends what nasty things we said to hurt your precious feelings, you fucking racist."


I do believe that I'm falling in love with djfav. He has such a direct way with bullshitting woo wanking retarded racists.

DJFAV I WANT YOUR BABIES!!!


JS:)

Jacqueline said...

"Now this is the atheist community you got, a bunch of insulting rednecks insulting anyone questioning their views and have done nothing with their lives, funny thing."

Being called a "redneck" by someone who clearly is one, is funny. You've magically seen in another Adolf Hitler inspired vision that we've done nothing with our lives. But the cruel fact of the matter is that you don't know us at all, and have to make up bullshit about us to try to distract us from the fact that you can't back up any of your arguments and run away from questions.

"At least if they (you) admitted your fear of being questioned, then I would have a tiny bit respect, but this is just pathetic."


Will you admit to your cowardice of being questioned then Gabe?
Because I'd like to see some answers to my questions. Or can't you prove that you actually read Dawkins latest book?
What is so difficult for you that you can't flick through your copy and answer my questions?
Why do you RUN AWAY from my questions, when it makes you look like a cowardly bullshitter?
Why are you too cowardly to even respond to my questions directly?
Who is pathetic now then, untermensch?

JS:)

Bronze Dog said...

Like Jacqueline said, Gabe, you've been running away from questions and making shit up about us.

We ask you the same questions we would ask ourselves in your situation and all you've done in response is provide cliche newage (rhymes with sewage) solipsistic rants about the evils of science.

We try to inform you about the problems of your anti-science beliefs and you ridicule the collective knowledge of biologists as if it were a fluff Wikipedia article about Paris Hilton.

And just because we once linked to a Wikipedia article, you use that as an excuse to go on to poison the well as if the fluff articles maaaaagically render the footnotes and citations of a higher quality page nonexistent.

It's also hilarious that you're so utterly desperate to ad hominem away science advocates like us with WoW accusations. As if us allegedly having a particular hobby overturns the foundations of logic and science.

Oh, and once again, I've never played WoW.

Face it, Gabe, you've done nothing but chicken shit your way out of the argument, just like all the other trolls. When pressured about anything, you always change the subject to irrelevancies, like hobbies or emotions.

Jacqueline said...

"Oh, and once again, I've never played WoW."

I have a friend that plays WoW regularly. Does that count? He is very intelligent and regularly helps me with things technological.

"Face it, Gabe, you've done nothing but chicken shit your way out of the argument, just like all the other trolls. When pressured about anything, you always change the subject to irrelevancies, like hobbies or emotions."


Gabe thinks that being cowardly and incoherent and racist somehow makes him "superior".
To get wikinite up to speed here are some highlights of Gabe's scintillating repartee:

"So you prefer our great nation to be run by a negro ape rather then a white war hero? Thats just glorious, see what our nation turns into now, more violence and crime and 'special treatment' for his fellow blackies no doubt.
White peopel built this nation, and yes, we did use negros as LABOURER, as that is what they where good for, but they did not 'create' our nation, we USED them, just as we use other animals, sheep, horses dogs etc. Some even can (almost) compete with whites in education, if they are trained enough.
Africans are, by definition, more 'closely' related to our ancestors, our ancestors are, in our own human perception, inferior to us, and therefore wouldn't africans by nature be inferior to 'less' african people? If you understand what I mean here?"

Yes we understand that you are a racist idiot Gabe.

"Is it worth pointing out that the Whites, Caucasians, are the ones that created this wonderful world? The computers you are using? The weapons we got to defend ourselfs?
Negros and Asians are, proven, to be rather backwards and more close to Apes then Us Whites, this is SHOWN by history, look at what we have accomplished? Sure, you can train, just like dogs, negros to behave and do work, we have plenty of them here in america, but most go back to their native behaviour of violence and criminality, statistics is on our side, most of our jails got negros and asians not white, WHY IS THAT?
I know i know, its a CONSPIRACY, the government is behind it, just like UFOs and all that, right? Comeone guys, just use facts and we know the truth, lets not call it racism but FACTS instead, we KNOW negros are close to apes, look at how they ACT and BEHAVE for gods sake, YES, we can train them, but we also do that to dogs and other animals, some of them go berserker, just like the negros (look at america and all our problems with crime and rape and such that the negros do).
BUT ITS NOT RACISM its just the facts. We should be able to talk about this without racism bullshit."

Gabe's lack of logic is clear. Its not racist to say that black folks are inferior, no better than animals. Thats not racist. Its just the facts of Gabe's fantasy in which he is the Aryan ubermensch. Can't you see that Gabe's Aryan wankfest fantasy is THE TRUTH, because Gabe just knows that it is.
Gabe did you get your idea of evolution from a comic book?


JS:)

Bronze Dog said...

Jacqueline: Gabe did you get your idea of evolution from a comic book?

Either that, or Hollywood.

Dweller in Darkness said...

And I wonder if Gabe has seen that TV commercial about the creator of the Pentium chip that is the heart of many of, "The computers [we] are using."

Jacqueline said...

"I'll say one thing for our untermensch. He hasn't had a frothing meltdown after I used #104U R TEH GAY!!! on him. I was hoping he'd go into full rant mode after I spelled his name Gaybe.
Most of the Nazi fuckwits I've argued with have been vehemently anti gay..."

I posted this earlier. though he didn't take the bait Gabe really is another vehemently anti gay Nazi fuckwit, here Gabe talks of AIDS:


"The predominantly negroid disease was to be inflicted on America, they started to rape our woman and children and it did not take long until it spread. The faggots dykes helped as well."




Not forgetting the post where Gabe says that Obama's health reforms will give white folks AIDS.
What a piece of work Gabe is.

JS

Bronze Dog said...

Yeah. And it's funny that just because HIV was geographically once confined to Africa, that it's a "negroid" virus according to Gabe's metaphysics.

Another funny thing on Gabe's earlier anti-vaxxer stance: I hear that in Australia and New Zealand, they've taken up calling a certain disease "English measles" now because that's where it comes from. Andrew Wakefield and his alchemical fear mongering created enough scare over there to lower the herd immunity, after all.

Anonymous said...

Response to Bronze Dog (I am writing this
in Wordpad and hoping the format will fit
your blog when I paste it in), Please try
to respond with respect and dignity rather
then, like your followers, give me a 'Fuck
you' and then demand a 'decent' response,
I hope you see the irony in such acts...



Part One, Act One; The Real World....

Alot of people do not do much with their
lives, they sit at home, play World of
Warcraft, Diablo or similar games, and the
most they do in socializing is when they
invite their friends over for some live
roleplay, I am not saying you are one of
these rather pathetic people, but wanted
to point out that you have shown signs of
it, and most of your followers certainly
seems to fit this bill.

I prefer experiencing the world, that is,
Learn about the real world we live
in rather then sitting infront of the
computer. Computers and the Internet are
a great thing indeed, and sure, Wikipedia,
something you have shown you truly admire
(and sure, I admit taking cheapshots at
you with that one, but comeone, you don't
think twice before insulting me) is clearly
a useful tool, but it is not the truth(tm)
and this is something I think you need to
realize.


I want to tell you a little bit about what
I do, or rather did, as I think it is relevant
to the topic.

Currently I am in Peru (as you know), I
was planning on leaving earlier but it
seems I am staying for a little bit more,
we are currently trying to start a new
school for children (we already have one
thats up and running) in which they have
a chance to learn english and general
education (history, math etc). We live
purely on contributions and the school
is free for everyone that can not afford
ordinary school, but we demand certain
things from the family (security wise)
for the children to be allowed in.

This is not relevant, I just wanted to
state what I am doing now. I am trying
to check the internet every day and
mail and so forth, but I am rather tired
and rarely can give proper responses to
such things as this, call it laziness
because of hardwork, albeit it is my
free time.

When I lived in Africa just a couple of
years ago, I travelled between South
Africa, Botswana and Namibia trying to
improve education and make it better
for the people (and this is the relevant
part-> ), now, to the contrary to how
you act and behave, we do not insult
people and degenerate others, we work
on passion of Love. We want to make it
better and with knowledge comes understanding,
and therefore a better life.

This demands that the negriods we teach
need to understand the world and their own
race and history and so forth. We do not,
as you act like (and seem to indicate that
I do) rednecks spitting them in the
face and insult them, no, we calmly educate
them just as you would with dogs. We
do not kick or harm dogs because they
are inferior, we teach them and make
them understand, just as we do with the
negriods when I worked there.

More ->

Anonymous said...

They know very well they are inferior,
they see America, the most advanced nation
the world as ever seen, they see our history
and the Whites building it and want to
become like us, I try to make it so, I
try to teach them to become just like
us and act like us. I want to Help and
I am doing it as much as I can. They
ask me about the White world and Why we
are so great, and I teach them and let
them understand that they cant live like
savages anymore, not if they want to
live a good life, get technology like
ours and so forth.

It is a mutual thing you see, they are
grateful that we help them and they want
us to teach them how to become just like
us, we educate them how to act and behave
and hopefully, in the future, they will
learn enough to be able to have stable
nations and a civil society. We demand
nothing in return, we see this as a way
of making the world a better place and
safer for us, but we cant pretent they
are somehow equal to us, they know themselves
they are inferior, we teach them about
their history, what they are doing now,
the murders and rapes and the spread of
aids and they know and understand, that
is, the really intelligent negriods, that
they are inferior and we are just there
to help them, so they listen, or alteast
I hope they listened to the education
and everything we gave them.

You act as we would kick and spit on
the dog just because it is below us,
you act like we are haters when we are
Lovers, this I do not understand, is
it a reaction to your own sins and the
way you think that you feel you need
to make up hate and spout it on others?

I had alittle negro girl come up to me
once at the school, we had been there
for about 3 months and I could tell most
of them apart by then, her name was maria
and was 11 years, she had shown reasonable
understanding and seem to have an eager
mind, maybe on the level of a 5 yearold
white girl in america, so I considered
her rather advanced, in any case, she
came up to me and said 'I wish I was like
you', I asked her what she meant, and
she told me (roughly, cant remember exactly)
'I want to be white like you so I can
make the world a good place', I laughed
at her saying that would be impossible,
but if she worked hard she might be able
to try to make her country a better place
worth living in.

8 months ago a colleague called me to
report what was going on and how things
where going, I found out that the little
girl, maria, had been raped and murdered
by her uncle, apparently he was upset
that she could read, the 'court' stated
that it was not their business and a
family affair he had hiv and was hoping
to get rid of it through giving it to
her. The rest of the village was apparently
rather indifferent, it wasn't very unusal,
the entire volunteer group had been demanding
justice and they where asked to leave, so
they packed their things and left, school
left empty, children back home or work or
prostitution or whatever they done earlier.
my colleague was rather upset about it,
but I seen these things before, it is not
surprising anymore, not for me.


What the point of this sad story? Well,
with education and understanding, if they
know they need help, they can be given
it, but without understanding it, you
cant. If you do not know your sick, you
wont be able to treat it, and the same
is here, they need to understand their place,
just like dogs, but people like you
need to get rid of the hatred you have
in you and understand to spread love
instead, just because you know something,
say a dog is inferior, does not mean,
which you seem to believe, you need
to hate it. Thats not how to do it.

What truly worries me is that however
much facts are shown, you still live in
your dreamworld, pretending. However much
the real world is there, you ignore it
spawning a new character in World of Warcraft..
Thats not Real Life.

More ->

Anonymous said...

A thousand years ago the negriods where
living on the savanna, no technology, most
die at a young age.

White man where travelling the oceans discovering
new continents and creating new cities.


Five hundred years ago the negriods where
living on the savanna, no technology, most
die at a young age.

White man had conquered most of Europe,
western Europe was spawning (need to use
that word) technologies and making the
world a better place (for us humans).


Fifty years ago the negriods where mostly
living on the savanna, no technology, most
die at a young age. A few exceptions such
as the areas controlled by Whites, which
turned into civilized societies.

White man went out in space and landed on
the moon.

One year ago a large portion of the negriods
where still living on the savanna, no technology,
most die at a young age. A new disease,
HIV, had taken over most of the continent,
because of lack of education, common sense
and general savage behaviour the disease was
spreading like wildfire through rapes,
unprotected sex and blood transplants and
various other ways.

White man had created the most advanced
nation the world has ever seen, United
States of America. White man where working
night and day to try to find the cure for
AIDS and other diseases, already abolishing
alot of them, such as tuberculosis and others.


Why does the facts not get through?/In that
scull of yours?


-More

Anonymous said...

- Facts, are they real or not? -

What constitutes facts is a hard one, especially
looking at the logic followed by the Bronze Dog
himself, he has so far shown that if he does not
like/accept it, it is generally not True, making
by default, anything Dog likes, true and factual.

This brings a bit of a problem to the real world
and people like me, as he decided not to 'like'
anything I say, and therefore it is not true. I
need to find entries in Wikipedia to be able to
'confirm' any fact, it seems, I wonder what he
think about CreationWiki???


First of all, I travelled and experienced alot.
Far more then you, I suspect, that is not
a insult, and certainly not a way of saying that
my opinions is somehow better then yours, I just
wanted to make you understand that I seen and
done alot in this WORLD of ours, not World of
Warcraft, not in a TV sitcom, but the Real World,
out there, and however you want to dismiss any
experience and knowledge I gained, As a minimum
we are equally as functional, mentally, atleast
on my side (I dont know if you have some mental
disorder but presume not), there must be a
limit, must it not?

'Science' is based on people, people just like
me, alot of them do not see as much as I see and
certainly not as intelligent as me, so they must
generally, in a minimum, in your own standard,
be equal to me, correct? And therefore, what is
the big deal trying to give authority to 'Science'
and not 'Gabe and others' if we follow the same
procedure?

In the science world today there is alot of
politcally correctness, you are not allowed to
state certain facts and not even try to step
into the realm of what is not allowed. Racial
matters is just like that, you see no research
in how Whites are superior to negriods, Why is
that? And yet you see people claiming it is not
so, that EVERYONE IS EQUAL, yet no evidence is
produced. It is simple so, because thats what
they say. Politically correct has become a
huge hindrence in knowledge, we are not allowed
to study the difference between niggers and
spics, spics and whites and whites and niggers,
because it does not suit. Anyone wanting to
go into this field would be condemed, no grants
and most likely lose their jobs, thats not
a overly 'paranoid(ic)' statement, really.

That is an issue, people like you, and not
to mention your rather pathetic followers,
who truly are a shining example of close-minded
nimrods, they are truly people you should
distance yourserlf from if you want to seem
intellectual and spread information. They do
not talk, they spout hatred, anyone not agreeing
with them are a asshole, idiot or just, why
try to think of tough words or correct usage
of syntax, fuck you. Nothing more...

They also take anything they can, if someone
spells 'letter' as leter, they jump on it, it
does not matter that he wrote a 1500 word explanation
to his views debunking all they said, no no, he
spelled letter incorrectly, thats all they got,
nothing more. And it is truly, once again, rather
pathetic. It continues with demands of demands
of already replied demanded demands. I seen people here
complaining about me lacingk of 'reading apprehension'
and in the next line asking to define aryan or
other words, which had already been defined five weeks
earlier. It is all ironic, and, once again, I
apologize for the repeat, pathetic.

I get this memory of someone not getting a
pun, and then attack it because they did not
get it, or spelled in a unsuitable way (in their
eyes) and then go with it, the rest, well thats
rather uncomfortable, then they need to think,
lets ignore that, they say (well, not say, that
is, mean, its a metaphor, dont want you to be confused
now, do we...)

You shouldn't need to be ashamed because you know your
place in society.

MWchase said...

There has been research into the connection between genetics and "race". It showed that a small percentage of human genes are responsible for 'racial' differences, and that, on average, there is more genetic diversity unrelated to race than related to race.

More specifically, a study that someone mentioned earlier found that, in Brazil, many of the white people have more black ancestry than many of the black people.

Now, like that blog post says, skin color is almost completely controlled by 5-6 genes. Now, this either implies that 5-6 genes control people's character to a ludicrous degree, or that judging someone's character just by looking at them is impossible.

(The null hypothesis here is the latter alternative.)

I don't know that you've laid out 'white' very well. You had a rant about [Nordic] people contributing everything good to history (lolwut) and excluded Russians from those who had ever contributed anything worthwhile. You also excluded various other groups that you've called inferior, so do you believe that Russians are 'inferior' to "Whites"?

I ask because I've hung out with various Russians over the years, and they spanned the spectrum of 'a shade lighter than I am' to 'lily-white'.

MWchase said...

Addendum: to tie that latest question about research into the woo comparison...

Asking why there haven't been any studies on white superiority is like asking why there haven't been any studies on whether psi is heritable. First, the effect that is presumed to exist needs to be established, and that hasn't happened.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Anonymous said...

In response to part of Gabe's first comment: My wife is Chinese, so I've had a bit of exposure to Chinese culture. It's true that in China and related cultures, pale skin is considered positive, and dark skin is not.

Mark, it is nice that one of the few eduated people here ateast acknowledge the information I given, China is of course one of many nations in Asia (I specifically lived in Eastern Asia, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia and so forth) and only visited China as a tourist, never lived there, but by the experiences I have had, I suspect it is quite similar as the Southern parts.

I missed your post earlier because of all the insults and bullshitting from the redneck style of 'missionaries' here in BronzeLand, one of them very very uneducated and pathetic, dj something, I usually just ignore all of you because of his racist and ignorant rants.

That you are married to a chink may prove my point, is she aware of white mans contribution to society? Does she know how luck she is that we exist giving her access to computers, cars cellphones and so forth? Something that her nation would never have if it was not for us?

I assume she lives here in America and not in her backwards shit nations? Wonder why? Do you teach her about america and whites so she understand she should be grateful?

Or do you pretend we are all 'equal' whiles using your computer, internet, car and phone? I've seen many living in that politically correct world, simple ignoring facts whiles using the technology they gotten from a specific source, White.

Anonymous said...

Correction, "I specifically lived in Eastern Asia" is suppose to be SOUTHERN parts of Asia.

That is, SouthEast Asia as it is generally defined as.

djfav said...

Gabe, fuck off and die. Seriously, go away. This has gone on for long enough. You haven't got the slightest idea how to make a case for any of your claims. What you call facts are nothing more than bald assertions. You have committed every fallacy in the book.

I repeat, fuck off and die, you racist piece of shit.

MWchase said...

Hold on hold on, let me get this straight: cultural biases borne of the fact that certain desirable behaviors result in pale skin demonstrate that having pale skin for reasons unrelated to those behaviors makes someone objectively superior?

To reiterate:
Wealthy people don't get as much sun, therefore
Wealthy people have paler skin than laborers, who work in the fields all day.
As a result, pale skin is prized as a mark of wealth.

Some people have naturally pale skin, because dark skin would give them rickets in their ancestral lands, as a result of vitamin D deficiency.

Therefore, Gabe is a moron.

(Also, note that pale skin comes from not doing work, when it's not genetic.)

Gabriel said...

Thats pathetic, and thats the best response I get writing a what, five column post, nice.

I simple point out the FACTS, I have stated nothing ABOUT negriods or spics or chinks or whatever they may be, I point out, WHITES create the most superior and advanced nations, negriods spics and chink nations are shit IF they dont get help from US, whites.

YOU make the rest up, YOU should figure it out, if you got a good reason for this (negriods being (inferior) give it, explain WHY the niggers are so behind and backwards, dont attack ME because of the FACT.

Also, any response to my very long post?

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Dweller in Darkness said...

It's not the length, it's how you use it. You used it to continue your same line of conversation, offering anecdote after anecdote based on your own experiences, which you admit are biased.

And you've still yet to define a "white" nation vs. a "non-white" nation at all. Not even a little bit. And you continue to insist that technology and science come from "whites" even when examples are given of how that's not the case. Either you're wrong and hiding from it, or you've formulated a theory where you are the ultimate artbiter of what constitutes evidence, and in either case there's simply no point in responding.

You've made up your mind, even while seeming to be completely out of it. There's nothing left to say.

djfav said...

Yeah, so fuck off, Gabe.

Gabriel said...

I just got a horrible thought on the discrimination we have in the societies today (this off-topic).

It is illegal for an employer to demand to know certain things about the people applying, they cant ask it straight out, which i find offensive.

You want to hire a new CEO and then, the woman you hire, turns out ot be pregnant 3 months later and donk, you have to pay her for not working close to a year because YOU COULDN'T ask her and couldnt DEMAND that she would not get pregnant (that is, she would e fired if she would as a breah of contract) etc, I find this disgusting.

The same with other general things, such as race, your not allowed to ask for a white rather then black, or rather say PLEASE NO SPICS OR NEGRIOS even when they are inferior worker, a decent ADD would look something like this if it wasn't for discimination bullshit:

NAME:
GENDER:
RACE:

etc

The Gender shows if it is a man or woman (this can be seen y name in general but for visual purpose on this post) as men are better worker, but most importanlt RACE.

A nigger is inferior to a white man in every single way, lets say two people apply for a job, one nigger and one white, the nigger most likely lied and made up alot of his CV and eventually, the employer decided to take the nigger, unknowingly, because he seems more qualified.

When he comes, the employer is shocked to see it was a nigger, but lets him stay to give him a chance, he had does credentials.

After a week the employer realize that this guy, lazy incompetent and literally an idiot, clearly have no knowledge of what he is doing nor does he want to. PROBLEM, if he fires him the niggers sues the company for 'discrimination' and it does not matter that he lied and is an incompetent moron, no no, we need to PROTECT the worker, not the business.

So alot of business's like that get useless idiots because they cant hire decent staff, positive discriminatio nand so fort, nigger, spic etc because they are just that, spics or niggers.


Of course ,you think its okay and GOOD that a company is FORCED to hire people that cant do the job and then are FORCED to KEEP THEM and not letting them go. I can accept that for HUGE 10k people business's, but the small business man is finished if he gets one or two pregnant woman or nigger not doing the job, thats it for him, he cant afford it. I feel sorry for them.

djfav said...

Fuck you, Gabe.

Bronze Dog said...

A long response to Gabe's recent chain here.

MarkCC said...

Gabe:

My "chink" wife as you put it, is a damn genius. (In the literal sense of the word.) She's sure as hell a lot smarter than you. For one thing, she's actually capable of writing a grammatical sentence as part of a well-formed logical argument.

We met in grad school. She's got a PhD in computer science, and is a technical lead/manager at IBM Research.

Also, as far as your bragging about how much better whites are than Chinese... China was also an extremely advanced society long before they had any connection with Europe. The Chinese civilization managed to be a stable society for thousands of years. There was nothing like the dark ages in China - no period of disastrous collapse of civilization for most of a millenium.

Chinese invented incredibly complex irrigation systems a thousands years before Europe. They invented vaccination at couple of hundred years before the Europeans. They sent out fleets of ships exploring, at least as far as the European whites did, and they did in hundreds of years earlier. Ever heard of the Cheng Ho? They invented gunpowder hundreds of years before the whites of Europe. The Chinese were well ahead of the Europeans in math. (Although that was mostly because of trade with India; the roots of math as we understand it come mostly from India and the Muslim Caliphate.)

It's very easy to diminish the accomplishments of people when you don't actually know anything about them.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of your stupidity.... I'm Jewish. Does that make me white, or not?

Rick said...

So Gabe: When are you going to get around to defining white?

You could make a good start by going over that list I gave, and identifying which would be white.


Also, a thousand years ago, the only thing Europeans were doing that involved crossing oceans and discovering continents were two Norse settlements.

The first founded by people who were kicked out of Iceland and weren't welcome back east. The second by people who were all but kicked out of the first.

Both of these settlements were abject failures: Vinland because they got into conflict with the locals. Greenland because they used up the wood faster than it grew.

Jacqueline said...

"Alot of people do not do much with their
lives, they sit at home, play World of
Warcraft, Diablo or similar games, and the
most they do in socializing is when they
invite their friends over for some live
roleplay, I am not saying you are one of
these rather pathetic people, but wanted
to point out that you have shown signs of
it, and most of your followers certainly
seems to fit this bill."

Ad Hominem. Plus I've seen men dressed as Klingons at conventions that were far less pathetic than Nazi sympathizers.
It doesn't matter that your world travels are largely anecdotal, and one man's anecdotes can differ from anothers. You are still a sad little racist with delusions of superiority.
I'm wondering when Gabe stops posting pathetic diversions instead of answering our questions?

Jacqueline said...

"to the contrary to how
you act and behave, we do not insult
people and degenerate others, we work
on passion of Love."

You just don't see how much of a hypocrite you are do you? these are YOUR WORDS untermensch:

"Negros and Asians are, proven, to be rather backwards and more close to Apes then Us Whites, this is SHOWN by history, look at what we have accomplished? Sure, you can train, just like dogs, negros to behave and do work, we have plenty of them here in america, but most go back to their native behaviour of violence and criminality, statistics is on our side, most of our jails got negros and asians not white, WHY IS THAT?"

You are insulting and "degenerating" blacks and asians there Gabe, or are you too stupid to notice what you're doing?



"We want to make it
better and with knowledge comes understanding,
and therefore a better life."


If you're teaching anyone about science or history they'll get a second rate parochial racist education for sure, provided that you can stay on subject, and not descend into vague arguments trying to tarnish intellectuals who plainly surpass your pea brained stupidity (Richard Dawkins).
You're really a piece of racist shit. A STUPID piece of racist shit.

Jacqueline said...

"First of all, I travelled and experienced alot.
Far more then you..."

So what Gabe I've travelled a lot, and you don't know where I've travelled either.




"...I suspect, that is not
a insult, and certainly not a way of saying that
my opinions is somehow better then yours.."


Except thats exactly what you've been saying.



"... I just
wanted to make you understand that I seen and
done alot in this WORLD of ours, not World of
Warcraft, not in a TV sitcom, but the Real World,
out there..."

And you're ineffectually trying to do it again. Gabe, why do you think we'll take anything you say at face value? Are you really so deluded that you think yourself the sole source of authentic experience and knowledge?


"... and however you want to dismiss any
experience and knowledge I gained..."

I'm willing to grant you've had experiences. Did some black person humiliate you at school? As for knowledge you've demonstrated very little of that. You need to get back to school and learn something other than the parochial stupidities that have sunk into your puny mind.

Jacqueline said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jacqueline said...

Did someone take a shit on this blog, or is Gabe's regurgitated offal stinking this site up?


"'Science' is based on people, people just like
me, alot of them do not see as much as I see and
certainly not as intelligent as me..."

Science is based on a way of testing claims, of scientific rigour not some vaguely defined people. Gabe, you certainly think you're something don't you? But the cruel fact of the matter is that you aren't very intelligent. Most of your posts display the fact that you'd rather lug around your Nazi wankfest fantasy and see the world through Hitlerized spectacles than consider a much more complex reality.



"... so they must
generally, in a minimum, in your own standard,
be equal to me, correct? And therefore, what is
the big deal trying to give authority to 'Science'
and not 'Gabe and others' if we follow the same
procedure?"


Ad Populam does not a science make Gabe. Especially if the populus is a bunch of Nazi idiots of the same, or similar, level of slothful mentation as yourself.

"In the science world today there is alot of
politcally correctness, you are not allowed to
state certain facts"





No Gabe, in science today there is burdensome testing and not lazy assertion that Nazi wankfest fantasies are FACTS.



"... we are not allowed
to study the difference between niggers and
spics, spics and whites and whites and niggers,
because it does not suit".

Thats because racist red necks such as yourself don't know any science. Because it rquires actual study, not reading comic books.

"Anyone wanting to
go into this field would be condemed, no grants
and most likely lose their jobs, thats not
a overly 'paranoid(ic)' statement, really."


Sure. Racists would be attacked for being sad little racists. But then again what would they be trying to do..? It wouldn't be science but some cargo cult wankery to enforce their fantasies on others, like the Discovery Institute does with ID.
As for paranoia, you're full of it. Got AIDS yet from president Obama yet?

Jacqueline said...

"I just got a horrible thought on the discrimination we have in the societies today (this off-topic)."


SAD SAD SAD SAD little man.
RUNNING AWAY again Gabe. More waffling, blustering and pseudocock waving?
Gabe you aren't going to adequately defend any of your idiotic fantasies here are you?

GO AWAY and get AIDS and die in shame you sad little deluded buffoon. You make Dave Mabus's fucked up rants seem like the coherent exegesis of a genius.


JS:)

djfav said...

"...slothful mentation..."

Oh my, that's a good one.

Jacqueline said...

djfav said...
"...slothful mentation..."

Oh my, that's a good one.

10/06/2009 8:12 AM


Cheers sweetie.


JS X

Gabriel said...

MarkCC

I do not know if you realize, but that your chink wife is a "genius" to you says alot about you, not her.

For example, if this is a chink hooker you found on a trip to China, it is most likely you are not very bright (maybe spic or nigger blood in you), and for You is is a genius, can read maybe write and so forth, this is your own limited world view.

Now if she is an american chink, then we can speculate that most likely her parents came to america illegaly, maybe her father was a drug smuggler, moder prostitute or somesuch, and they paid to send her to white schools, ie, We educated her, as we already established, it seems asian can take in information (possible even create), so she would be able to take in all the white knowledge learnt at the white school, and not very bright, you being very limited intellectually, see her as a "genius".

Most likely she is american as few people here has ever been outside america, so most likely her father was some sort of drugg smuggler, maybe even sent her to really nice white schools, could this be correct?

If for some amazing reason you actually met her in China, congratz, you been abroad, I hope you realized how great america is, you would be one of few her that has been and dared to go outside of the borders. The negative of this would f course be, SUCKER, you managed to get a chink whore because you where "in love", newsflash, she is a hooker dude, she used you to get to america, deal with it.

But of course, you will make up some excuse, the other likelihoods are to be ignored, I know, it must hurt inside reading this, maybe you did not understand she was a hooker? Or IS she american Her father got her a american visa because of the money they aquired through whatever drug business he was doing? Or do you really know anything about her history? Have you checked it, validate it? I doubt it.

Tom Foss said...

Wow Gabe, you got all that from one short post, clearly having done no outside research. You must be Sherlock fucking Holmes to derive so much from so little. Especially since your whole screed there ignores things like Asian performance in math and science vs. American performance, and so forth. But as you continue to demonstrate, facts clearly matter less to you than your baseless prejudices, and those who crow most loudly about the superiority of the white race are its most laughable examples.

Gabriel said...

Of course Tom, and Jealousy of the white race is also rampant, but if the blog world makes you feel "big" and "strong" you go ahead and question Fact. Bronze do, so obviously his followers, or is that sheep? would as well...

djfav said...

Gabe, I find your presumptuousness highly entertaining. You, sir, are an ass.

You obviously have no idea who Mark is, or his wife, for that matter.

Oh, and fuck you.

djfav said...

I mean, really. You spout off all that hatefull bullshit that you think you know about Mark's wife, and then you tell him to do some research into her background.

You really are completely lost.

Gabriel said...

You obviously have no idea who Mark is, or his wife, for that matter.

I never answer you because of your ignorant post and signs of childish behaviour (insults and limited knowledge etc), but I give you one, and thats it.

Lets see, I ASSUMED Mark was American, therefore there isonly two options, his chink wife is either born in America (with parents illegaly coming to america for a better life) or he went to China, which most likely makes his chink wife a hooker, that is a simple Logical Conclusion.

That she is a "genius" is not worth much, lets say we have 10 oe 20 "geniuses" in china, these are chinks, very limited mentally, what is the likelihood that she would be ONE of these "intelligent" chinese people? VERY small, but sure, lets say she is a "genius" (chinese standard). Then she would be as any 15 yearold white girl in america, great, very impressive indeed.

Logic my hating friend. You spout hatred and stupidity all the time, that you even MENTION anything I say here is AMUSING because of your own actions and comments towards me, the last five ws something around.. Fuck You... How old are you? 12? Do you live in the basement with your spic parents? Your nigger father? Do you know your father? Or did your mother just say he "travels alot", yes? I am getting close, right.

Please do not comment on me or say anything ot me IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE CIVIL, grow up, a SORRY is the first thing, before that, I will ignore anything you say.

Amd sorry you are to immature to say, only a grownup can do that little boy.

Dweller in Darkness said...

The man calls someone's a wife a whore, child of a criminal and a mental subdefective and then gets defensive that people are being uncivil to him.

Sounding more and more like a creationist with every passing post, although with a little more swearing.

Bronze Dog said...

Shorter Gabe: I have frequent flier miles, therefore I just know all the possibilities and can thus preemptively discount any others.

Oh, and if the Asians are so inferior, how did they catch up with us so quickly?

djfav said...

Gabe, you are just so precious.

"Lets see, I ASSUMED..."

Your assumptions are what make you such an ass.

"Logic my hating friend."

My irony-meter just exploded.

"How old are you? 12? Do you live in the basement with your spic parents? Your nigger father? Do you know your father? Or did your mother just say he "travels alot", yes? I am getting close, right."

No, you're way off. I'm 28 as of yesterday. I live and work in Austin, all by my lonesome. And I'm as white as they come, though I'm told I have a drop of Native American in me.

"Please do not comment on me or say anything ot me IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE CIVIL, grow up, a SORRY is the first thing, before that, I will ignore anything you say."

Another irony-meter bites the dust. You've been anything but civil right from the start, and you've been ignoring a hell of a lot more that little ol' me.

"Amd sorry you are to immature to say, only a grownup can do that little boy."

And that's just fucking incoherent. Care to parse that more carefully for me?

djfav said...

Oh, and I almost forgot. Fuck you, Gabe.

Bronze Dog said...

Side thought: Gabe seems to be advocating complacency a lot of the time: "We don't need to bother with the scientific method because our genes will make scientific progress just happen, and without any effort on our part."

Of course, this is because Gabriel knows nothing about how science works, and why it's often easier to "steal" than in any Civilization game: Science is a "build on the work of others" enterprise. In the information age, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, and any new generation can catch up just by going to a school that teaches the latest concepts. Many wise Asian people apparently realized that, and sent many of their brightest to developed nations or hired tutors from such places. Do it enough, and you can be on the cutting edge almost overnight.

Humans are very impressionable, which is why nurturing someone from childhood in the latest science tends to produce individuals capable of extending the frontiers of science. That's why Gabriel's bizarre racial theory is so confusing: I don't see how it can explain Asians catching up so that places like Japan and China could be economic super powers: If they're somehow genetically stupid, how could they understand "white" technologies enough to improve on them or even lead in some fields.

One undercurrent I often pick up is that Gabe doesn't believe in individuality: Humans are apparently like insects to him, with fixed responses to stimuli. Someone who plays a video game once will transform into some obese poopsocking WoW player. Someone who looks at a Wikipedia for a quick summary of the scientific consensus will suddenly buy into everything on there and forget grade school critical thinking and retreat from the world. Someone who tends to trust the work of thousands of scientists double-checking each other will subscribe to it like a religion, instead of asking questions when something unusual is said.

Tom Foss said...

Of course Tom, and Jealousy of the white race is also rampant, but if the blog world makes you feel "big" and "strong" you go ahead and question Fact. Bronze do, so obviously his followers, or is that sheep? would as well...

I guess Gabe's just descended into complete incoherence at this point. Must be all that inbreeding.

Bronze Dog said...

It's indeed beginning to look like that.

And on that snippet, he still doesn't realize the difference between facts and theories/hypotheses.

Even if Gabe's facts were all completely true, his "race" hypothesis does a piss-poor job of explaining those facts. It even involves ignoring how all the successful scientists say they became successful.

His hypothesis, like a Creationist's, is so poorly supported, he earlier ran away from my offer to have him compete with "I don't know." We certainly can't expect him to bother to think about social, political, or economic explanations as the alternatives.

Tom Foss said...

The thing I find most hilarious--at least, right now--is that his insane false dichotomies are self-refuting. Ignore for a moment that he seems to think that more than half of the women in China are hookers--which seems to be an untenable economic system--and note the two options he gives for meeting a Chinese woman: either you meet her as a hooker in China, or she is an illegal immigrant (possibly once removed). Even ignoring the insanity of these options, a third possibility is necessarily present as a result: I could meet the daughter of a hooker who a citizen married, thus conferring legal citizenship, and brought over.

Reading these clearly insane self-refuting contradictory fallacy-ridden arguments is getting to be like trying to read through Graeme Bird's garbage: it's amusing in the way that watching an invalid shit themselves is amusing, but it's mostly just pathetic, and makes you want to refer them to some professional help.

Bronze Dog said...

I had thought of comparing Gabe to Graeme, too: He is to the correlation implies causation fallacy as Graeme is to shifting the burden of proof.

Also, his epistemology is inherently useless, too. It leaves me to wonder if he EXPERIENCES magicians performing, he'd conclude that it was supernatural powers, rather than misdirection and sleight of hand.

djfav said...

Thanks, Tom. I found myself unable to express just how fucked up that bit was, but you've summed it up quite well.

MWchase said...

grade school critical thinking

You had actual lessons in critical thinking in grade school? Congrats, that beats out my grade school.

I don't think there's anything sinister to it... good critical thinking, like good math, is very hard to put on a modern curriculum.

I don't think I can add anything to the commentary on those latest comments from Gabe... The man is clearly a raving delusional, carefully insulated from unpleasant facts and the need to truly think.

I've got a half-"spic" mother working at MIT, to throw on to the general "Yes, they can be smart." idea. (Center for Information Systems Research at the Sloan School of Management, if anyone's curious.)

(One last thing: correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm the second-youngest here. Youngest is King of Ferrets, if I'm right about this.)

Rick said...

Gabe, you still haven't answered the very basic question of:

What, exactly, do you mean when you say white?

You seem to be unable to even go through a list and check off a string of yes/no answers. Let's try something simpler:

Were the Franks white?

Can you at least answer that?

Jacqueline said...

Gabe, here is your paranoid fantasy in your own words:

"Politically, you should be worried, Today we now have a negro as our Head of State. Someone that no doubt follows the negro policies. Imagine if he gets one of his 'National Healthcare plans' to go through, a way for him to spread HIV to the whites of America, he can force you to be condemned with HIV, maybe it has not sunk in
yet, maybe it will if that happens, when you know your expiration date, then you think 'Oh, maybe I should have listen to Gabe'.

Of course, you live in a delusional world, you think reality is not real..."


Ah, the irony of those last words!

Jacqueline said...

"But as you continue to demonstrate, facts clearly matter less to you than your baseless prejudices, and those who crow most loudly about the superiority of the white race are its most laughable examples."

How many times is this Nazi buffoon going to get his ass handed back to him on a plate?



JS;)

Jacqueline said...

"Reading these clearly insane self-refuting contradictory fallacy-ridden arguments is getting to be like trying to read through Graeme Bird's garbage: it's amusing in the way that watching an invalid shit themselves is amusing, but it's mostly just pathetic, and makes you want to refer them to some professional help."

I can't stop laughing at this quote. Pure skeptic gold.

Unfortunately Gabe is too stupid to feel humiliated by such a brilliant put down.

JS:)

Gabriel said...

President Obama Gets Nobel Peace Price - The Nobel Price is no longer worth squat


What can we conclude of this? That the Nobel Price is no longer worth anything in its prestige and honor. If this pathetic nigger can get the peace price, why not Saddam Hussein? Or some spic on the street? Obama has done nothing more then anyone else and its a shame.

We can not declare that anyone that has gotten the Nobel price (from now on) are really not more unique or special then someone that gets a trophy in highschool, it is worth nothing.

No doubt you stand behind "the great Obama", but the rest of the intelligent world laughes at it, the Nobel Price is no longer worth shit.

Bronze Dog said...

Wow, you're stupid, Gabe. Didn't you pay attention to anything I said about Obama?

Oh, wait, that's right, instead of looking at my comments to learn about my thoughts on the matter, you just watch a bunch of Hollywood comedy flicks from the 80's about nerds.

I don't see much reason to think Obama's done anything worthy of a Nobel. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to think of anything he's done at all.

Tom Foss said...

First, Gabe, it's the Nobel Peace Prize.

Second, I agree. Obama's done nothing to deserve it. About the only argument one could make for his receiving it is that he has recommitted the United States to pursuing diplomacy and negotiation over the previous administration's policy of "bomb first, ask questions never." The fruits of this have already been obvious, what with the compromises Iran has already made regarding its nuclear program based on talks with the US, plus that whole pirate fiasco a few months back, but that has all happened since the Nobel nominations process ended. Plus, I'm not sure that those events would outweigh the continuation of two wars, the limp support of healthcare reform, and the lukewarm approach to rolling back the Bush-era executive abuses and closing Gitmo, all of which would seem to go against the values of peace.

Incidentally, even Obama has said that he hasn't done anything to deserve the prize.

I'm sure there were probably better recipients this year, and it strikes me as odd that 3 of the last 8 Peace Prize laureates have been US Democratic Presidents or Vice Presidents. That seems to be a very high number.

As far as the value of the prize, I generally agree there, too. I think its bankruptcy was established when it was given to the Dalai Lama in the '80s and Mother Teresa in the '70s, but Ed Brayton made a good case for calling it bullshit after Henry Kissinger received it in '73.

If this pathetic nigger can get the peace price, why not Saddam Hussein?

Well, for one, because Saddam is dead, and the Nobel Prize can't be awarded posthumously.

If you'd been paying attention, Gabe, you might have noticed that Obama's not the first black guy to get the award. As it turns out, skin color isn't an impediment to campaigning for peace.

Rick said...

Gabe, we're still waiting on your definition of white.

Jacqueline said...

Gabriel said...
"President Obama Gets Nobel Peace Price - The Nobel Price is no longer worth squat.
What can we conclude of this? That the Nobel Price is no longer worth anything in its prestige and honor. If this pathetic nigger can get the peace price.."

Gabe, if Obama succeeds in giving you AIDS so that you die in agony, I'll support his Nobel nomination. The planet will be a better place without your stupid racist presence.

JS;)

Gabriel said...

First, Gabe, it's the Nobel Peace Prize.

I wonder how accidentally spelling a word wrong even comes into your comments? You may have noticed that I do not comment when people spell wrods wrong, and most do, its normal.

This is an ad hominem (means an attack on the person rather then argument) which shows you as rather weak as you clearly cant defend your stance and need to attack Me for small spelling errors.


Second, I agree. Obama's done nothing to deserve it. About the only argument one could make for his receiving it is that he has recommitted the United States to pursuing diplomacy and negotiation over the previous administration's policy of "bomb first, ask questions never." The fruits of this have already been obvious, what with the compromises Iran has already made regarding its nuclear program based on talks with the US, plus that whole pirate fiasco a few months back, but that has all happened since the Nobel nominations process ended. Plus, I'm not sure that those events would outweigh the continuation of two wars, the limp support of healthcare reform, and the lukewarm approach to rolling back the Bush-era executive abuses and closing Gitmo, all of which would seem to go against the values of peace.

I am ignorant of this "pirate fiasco" but alas, I do not watch the news much. Anyway, we seem to agree.

Incidentally, even Obama has said that he hasn't done anything to deserve the prize.

And he is the first prize winner that stated this? Other then, say, everyone else?

I'm sure there were probably better recipients this year, and it strikes me as odd that 3 of the last 8 Peace Prize laureates have been US Democratic Presidents or Vice Presidents. That seems to be a very high number.

United States is the most advanced and powerful nation on the planet, we created technology and a society in awe around the world, so no, I do not find that to surprising myself.

As far as the value of the prize, I generally agree there, too. I think its bankruptcy was established when it was given to the Dalai Lama in the '80s and Mother Teresa in the '70s, but Ed Brayton made a good case for calling it bullshit after Henry Kissinger received it in '73.

Agreed.

Tom Foss said...

I wonder how accidentally spelling a word wrong even comes into your comments? You may have noticed that I do not comment when people spell wrods wrong, and most do, its normal.

You're right, occasional typos are normal. What's not normal is the way you torture both grade school grammar and spelling, then go on to declare yourself the intellectual superior of other races.

This is an ad hominem (means an attack on the person rather then argument) which shows you as rather weak as you clearly cant defend your stance and need to attack Me for small spelling errors.

If my argument were "Gabe makes spelling errors, therefore he's dumb," you'd be right, that would be an ad hominem. What I'm doing however is saying "Gabe is wrong for X, Y, and Z reasons, and he also makes spelling errors that a third grader would catch." That's not ad hominem, that's just adding insult to argument. It's a subtle distinction, I suppose, and one that would require more reading comprehension skill than you have thus far demonstrated, but the situations are distinct nonetheless.

Good try, though.

And he is the first prize winner that stated this? Other then, say, everyone else?

I don't know what you mean. At least one other person has declined the prize (Le Duc Tho in 1973), but I don't know how many (if any) other people have said that they don't deserve it. The point, however, is that even Obama's stymied by the choice.

United States is the most advanced and powerful nation on the planet, we created technology and a society in awe around the world, so no, I do not find that to surprising myself.

No, of course you wouldn't. Blind nationalism is a poor replacement for actual thought.

MarkCC said...

Hey, Gabe, you got all of your guesses wrong.

I met my wife in the US, but she's not American. She was born in Canada. Her parents got there by getting into graduate school for being so damned smart. Her father was a professor of Chemistry at Concordia when she was born. They moved back to Taiwan as a result of some obnoxious Quebequois laws. (In Quebec at the time, you could only send your children to a french-language school unless *you* attended a non-french school in Quebec. Since they didn't speak French, they didn't want their daughter to go to a French-laguage school. So they moved to Taiwan, where she stayed until she graduated from college.

Then she got into a Canadian university for a PhD program. Her advisor became pregnant, and was planning on taking several years off - so she changed schools, and wound up at the same grad school as me. We met prepping the the PhD preliminary exams.

Have you ever heard of IBM Research? You know, the best corporate research lab in the world today? Yeah, that's where she works, as a professional
researcher.

I've long since lost count of her professional publications. Which are peer reviewed, like any other scientific publication. And most are *blind* reviewed - meaning the reviewers know nothing about the authors. The reviewers don't know the names of the authors; they don't know where they work. Somehow, she's managed to get somewhere around 50 peer reviewed publications on natural language processing.

Have you heard about these projects that they do at IBM, called "deep blue"? Like where they built an IBM computer and software that beat Gary Kasparov at chess? My wife is one of the technical leads in the current deep blue project. IBM isn't passing out jobs on that project; they've got rather a lot staked on it's success. She's one of the people that they chose to work on it.

But you know better, right? Because you know *one* thing about her: that she's chinese. And therefore, you know all that you *need* to know to conclude that she couldn't possibly be smarter than a big white man like you.

I notice, also, that you didn't bother to answer my question. My ancestors are from Latvia. Does that make me white? I'm Jewish - does that change it?

Jacqueline said...

MarkCC said...
"Hey, Gabe, you got all of your guesses wrong."

And then he goes on to piss all over Gerbriel's pathetic racist slander. No wonder Gerbriel didn't respond, but chose to run away from MarkCC's post. It would have been an even bigger humiliation for Gerbriel.


Squeeled by Gerbriel:
"And the rest of your sheep gives pretty much the same and calls me an asshole or similar, very mature and educated."

Calling Mark CC's wife a whore,and her parents illegal immigrants wasn't very mature or educated. But Gerbriel is too stupid to accept his own racist retardation.


JS;)

Dark Jaguar said...

And before you write off this whole thing Gabe, it won't go away. Your "theory of race" NEEDS to acknowledge these major exceptions, which are plentiful world-wide. In the same way that a single instance of a rabbit fossil in the cretacious would require a complete revisal of evolution, in the same way a single instance of mercury moving in a slightly different curve than predicted by newtonian physics required CREATING RELATIVITY to deal with it, these sorts of observations can't be ignored if your "race" thing is going to have any merit.

Bronze Dog said...

Of course, Gabe seems to follow the Graeme Bird school of thought when it comes to burden of proof: It's not up to him to defend his racial hypothesis, it's up to us to demonstrate the nonexistence of large neurology-related gene differences.

You know, kind of like how it's up to us skeptics to prove the nonexistence of unicorns.

Berlzebub said...

@ Gabe:
"United States is the most advanced and powerful nation on the planet, we created technology and a society in awe around the world, so no, I do not find that to surprising myself."
From the wording it seems that you are a bit confused, Gabe. There is the Nobel Peace Prize, and there are also the Nobel Prizes awarded for scientific advancement. Our advancements in technology (we didn't create technology, because the U.S. wasn't even around when the first clock was invented) and our society is actually based on ideas from philosophers that are over 2,000 years old.

The Nobel Peace Prize is awarded to someone who has went above and beyond in an attempt to bring peace from previously strained relations. The Nobel Prizes in physics, biology, etc. are awarded to the scientists who make discoveries. Mother Teresa once won the Nobel Peace Prize, but she never invented anything or furthered technology.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
djfav said...

It's a brave new world after all.